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  #1  
Old 03-12-2004, 10:57 PM
Eskon Eskon is offline
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Default First hand SnG

10$ SnG 9 handed

first hand so no read on the players.

Everyone starts with T2000, blinds at 10

folded to LM who bets T600 out of the gate.next player raises to T 1200.

Button folds.I have KK in the SB. Hmmmmmm

Now a call leaves me with T800 if the original bettor doesnt reraise.

Now I have seen some really stupid plays in the first hands of some of these trnys(with large raises with any ace and the such) and generally dont play the first few hands till I get a read on the table(unless I have a monster)

So what do I do. Reraise allin, or call,and go allin on the flop if an ace doesnt show ( if it even gets to that point)

Just as a side note...I briefly considered folding(briefly) to let them duke it out(and to see what thier standards were,and for the fact AA was a consideration)) but decided I wouldnt be able to live with it if they had garbage hands and were just trying to buy the first pot.

I will post the results later and my reasoning for my actions later
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2004, 05:33 AM
Vern Vern is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG

I am torn between pushing all-in or calling, first you will face AA every 19 times you start a tourny with KK, pretty good odds, but still a gamble of sorts. I lean towards calling because you allow yourself to make additional choices and I doubt pushing all-in would actually get either to lay down. They are either reckless or dominated or one is loaded with AA and you are a dog. By calling, the first bettor will likely only re-raise if he had AA, but I don't think he is since if he really held AA, he would have gone for a limp/raise if he was any good. The second player could have AA, but I think he would have pushed all-in since the original bet was so big buthe could be baiting the original bettor to call his AA. Calling lets you see the flop, if there is an ace, you check/fold as you don't have enough chips to try anything fancy. If there is a king you go for the check/raise and if there is neither or both, you check and watch them before you decide. The key is you have not given up your chance to make later decisions by going all-in preflop with a re-raise that is unlikely to buy you the pot at that moment. BTW, I put the original bettor on JJ and the raiser on AK trying to make it heads up.

Vern
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2004, 06:14 AM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG

In my view, this is a clear push, especially with the fact it's 10$ SNG, you don't have a strong read, and say you've seen people do stupid things on these games in early rounds.

I think you are a big favorite here, and there's a good chance they are both Ax, which helps you a lot against the A over-card. Poket-pairs are also great for you, and I don't see a reason to be too afraid of the AA.

Only my opinion,

PrayingMantis
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2004, 12:05 PM
UTGunner UTGunner is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG

Go all-in. You will either be the chip leader, or you can quickly start another SnG.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2004, 12:07 PM
PSS PSS is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG

Vern wrote:
"...but I don't think he is since if he really held AA, he would have gone for a limp/raise if he was any good."

Really? That surly depends on how likely it is that someone behind will raise. If it turns out to be a loose-passive table - and how could you possibly know on the 1st hand - then limping will let all kinds of rubbish in to outdraw AA.

Anyway, the fact that this player has raised a blind of 10 to 600 kind of suggests that he isn't very good. I'd push it all in and if up against AA then shrug and enter another...

PSS
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2004, 02:51 PM
Vern Vern is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG

While I see your point, on the first hand of a SnG at such a low limit, I think he is unlikely to have AA and bet 30% of his stack for such a small blind but I think pushing in here is bad. Do you really think both will fold? If not, then pushing in is wrong as you deprive yourself of the chance to cut your losses on the flop. If they are raising crazy pre-flop, they will likely call for 600 more into a 4200 pot on the flop. With two hard chargers, I just think you have to be cautiously aware that AA exits and might be there and don't rush head long with your eyes closed.
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  #7  
Old 03-13-2004, 04:59 PM
Prickly Pete Prickly Pete is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG

Do you really want to play against QQ and TT, see an Ace flop and fold, having pissed away T1200? I don't. Push allin.
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  #8  
Old 03-13-2004, 05:02 PM
PSS PSS is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG

I'm not 100% I follow: If you are worried about AA then what are you going to do on the flop when all the cards are low? You simply loose your chips on the flop rather then all in pre-flop. If your not worried about AA, but rather random aces hitting, then you may as well charge full price for them to out-draw you.

I agree that the all-in will almost certainly be called by one, probably both of the players, but that's good unless one of them has pocket aces, and if one of them *does* have aces you'll loose all your chips in any event, unless the aces are unlucky enough to hit a set.

PSS
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  #9  
Old 03-13-2004, 05:27 PM
Eskon Eskon is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG...results

I decided to push allin for the simple fact that if the original bettor had a smaller pr I had him beat and may get him to fold (slight chance) and if there was AA out there then oh well.If by chance I was up against Ax and AA then there is a better chance of one of my kings showing on the board than the forth ace.

The reason I didnt call to see a flop was with the size of the raise, the second player was already preparred to go allin no matter what flopped (and I have seen people do it with smaller pr's as well as Ax) so unless an Ace flopped I was pretty much committed, so why not push and try to force it heads up.both players were just as likely to have smaller pr's (QQ JJ TT ) or to have Ax,Kx and the such.

Both call the allin...original bettor shows suited AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] the other shows AA nobody's hand improves

I lose, chuckle and start a new trny

I found the hand interesting but was in no way upset with the outcome. I think under the cicumstances my push was good and was preparred for the possibility that the ace's were out there (wasnt expecting the see the AK to go with it, but oh well)

This type of situation is one of the reasons I dont like to play the first few hands in a trny, and really dont like getting good cards right off the bat (unless its AA) but does keep the game interesting to say the least [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 03-13-2004, 05:32 PM
Eskon Eskon is offline
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Default Re: First hand SnG

I see your point but the original bettor has not pot commited himself yet, and by pushing may get him to fold.
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