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Old 12-29-2005, 02:46 AM
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Default Couldn\'t Lay Down AK - Was I Justified?

Played probably one of the most memorable hands of my life at Turning Stone Casino in NY today. Here's the situation:

I had literally just sat down at a 1/2 no-limit table, and my first hand I receive A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in middle position. I raise to $8, and get three calls behind me. (Fun sidenote: At this point the table's huge stack, who had folded but had about $1000 worth of chips in front of him, joked to me "Tilt raise, huh?" and I joked back "I plan on busting out this hand." Big mistake.

Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I bet out $15, half the pot. The villain to my left raises to $30, and gets called by the button. I call this bet, though I'm not liking my chances right now.

The turn comes K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I check, which in hindsight was probably a mistake, but it also wouldn't have mattered in the long run. The villain, who had everyone covered, immediately went allin. The button jumped out of his seat, and after thinking for about a minute, folded. Now it was to me, and although I was sick to my stomach thinking I was beat, I just couldn't get away from it. The pot was laying me almost exactly 2-1 on my money, which probably wasn't enough, but I called off my last $62 anyways.

The villain flipped over JJ and took the pot. (Button had incredibly laid down 10-10)

It seemed like a tossup call to me at the time, but the more I think about it, the worse it seems. With the action in that pot, really the only hands I could have beaten at that point were AA, QQ, KQ, and a flush draw, and I don't think he could possibly have played any of those hands the way he did.

That leaves pretty much every possible hand out there beating me. KJ, K10, JJ, 10-10, AQ...they all have me beat, and the villain's betting would make a lot more sense for any of those hands than it would for one of the few hands I could beat. The only other option would be a stone cold bluff or a flush draw, but the guy would have to be an absolute maniac to try something like that in that pot, and as it was my first hand at the table, I couldn't possibly put him on anything like that.

So my real question is, was I justified in making that call, or was it a hand I could have and should have gotten away from?
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:54 AM
Fallen Hero Fallen Hero is offline
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Default Re: Couldn\'t Lay Down AK - Was I Justified?

You could and should have gotten away from it.

PS: flop bet is absolutly horrible :|

PPS: if button is half-awake he could have saved you your stack on the flop, bad luck
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Old 12-29-2005, 03:18 AM
tree_stump tree_stump is offline
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Default Re: Couldn\'t Lay Down AK - Was I Justified?

[ QUOTE ]
You could and should have gotten away from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm one of those people who cbets after a PFR something like 104% of the time, and there's no way I'd bet into that flop with two callers... There's nothing they can have between the two of them that you can beat - and even if you have the lead now, you aren't favored to win the pot.
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Old 12-29-2005, 03:20 AM
happyjaypee happyjaypee is offline
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Default Re: Couldn\'t Lay Down AK - Was I Justified?

The time to fold your hand was on the flop I think, but whit no information whatsoever on the player, I understand it was a hard one to make. On the turn, Top trips whit live redraws is too appealing to many (including me)

Your post-action analysis is correct tought, but you just could'nt make it in the heat of action, practice on that. My trick is to really detach from the hand and try to analise it from an observer point of view. Granted this is not always easy but it is a step forward.

As said above, the button's weak play probably cost your your stack. Had he raised like a normal player on a draw heavy flop whit is set of 10's, you could have gotten away more easely. But had you been at the table for a while, you might have pick up ont that tendancy too.

Still, it is a one of a kind type of hand, I would'nt worry too much about it at that level.
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Old 12-29-2005, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: Couldn\'t Lay Down AK - Was I Justified?

That's somewhat of a scary flop for AK. Ideally you should have probably bet out 3/4-full pot on the flop, and folded (though not literally, but mentally,) immediately to a raise.

Think about the pf -> turn action. You raised pf and had three callers. That's bad news #1.

Bad News #2: You made a weakish bet the flop, and get raised AND called behind you. All three of you can see that yes, there is a King on the board, and the other two agree that they can contend with it, or beat it.

Now, what hand ranges do you think you can beat? Possible holdings for the villains are (judging from pf action) JJ-on down, AK, AQ, or AJ.

Post flop action narrows these ranges to AK, flushdraw, AQ, JJ or 1010, three of which have you beat, one of which you split with, and only one option that you're ahead of.

Turn pairs the board, gives you trips, but villain seems to welcome it.

Easy fold, in my opinion.
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Old 12-29-2005, 04:21 AM
scrapperdog scrapperdog is offline
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Default Re: Couldn\'t Lay Down AK - Was I Justified?

The crappy thing about that King is that it really does not change much. It looks like you have improved your hand a ton but the only hand that it hurts is J-10. Any other hand that was ahead of you on flop is still ahead, I am thinking AA is not in range due to not being re-raised pre flop.
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