Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Two Plus Two > Two Plus Two Internet Magazine

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-12-2005, 12:00 AM
Zeno Zeno is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 1,599
Default A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

A line from one of El Diablo's responses to Barron:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only humourous thing here is watching you make such a f'in clown of yourself even after being given multiple opportunities to salvage some amount of dignity.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[So I wrote this in replay to El's post. And it explains the reason for this post, in addition my original reply will not be buried in the other thread, which is tedious and long]



This is what happened [I should add that this is my theory]. Barron got someone to fold aces by rather bad play combined with some luck. His opponent, a fool, showed his hand before mucking, thus proving he was a very poor player to begin with. Barron then took this, and working backwards, with results orientated thinking and other poor poker reasoning wrote up an article. To give it some punch he added the quotes from Theory of Poker etc. on the header. Bingo an ego inflated article that falls flat.

I'm starting to get pissed. And that's something for a stoic like me.

Here is what needs to be done, and you would be the best one to do it. Copy and paste Barron's article into Word. Go through the whole article paragraph by paragraph and put all your comments and questions in italics, interlaced with his original article. That way no doubt or questions can arise to every point made. No quibbling or underhanded tactics will be possible in a response. Make a few remarks about the poor construction of some of the sentences also. Just to add some fun to it.

Then repost it in this forum for all to see.

What I also find troubling is that my friend Andy Fox is having an article published in this magazine. And this oaf Barron is besmirching its reputation just before that happens. Andy can no doubt restore some of the luster but that is beside the point.

You have time for this El Diablo? I hope so.

-Zeno

PS I am also going to make the above as a separate post in this forum.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-12-2005, 12:15 AM
BarronVangorToth BarronVangorToth is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

[ QUOTE ]

Here is what needs to be done, and you would be the best one to do it. Copy and paste Barron's article into Word. Go through the whole article paragraph by paragraph and put all your comments and questions in italics, interlaced with his original article. That way no doubt or questions can arise to every point made. No quibbling or underhanded tactics will be possible in a response. Make a few remarks about the poor construction of some of the sentences also. Just to add some fun to it.

[/ QUOTE ]


This certainly sounds like a jolly homework assignment. I can only hope you will be participating as well. Perhaps through them redemption will be found. Is their an estimated due date or should I hit "refresh" on this thread every few moments and hope for the best?

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-12-2005, 12:43 AM
Zeno Zeno is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 1,599
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

[ QUOTE ]
This certainly sounds like a jolly homework assignment. I can only hope you will be participating as well. Perhaps through them redemption will be found. Is their an estimated due date or should I hit "refresh" on this thread every few moments and hope for the best?



[/ QUOTE ]

I read that article that you linked to in the other thread. It was very interesting.

And with the above response, I understand things better now than before.

Thanks.

I'm done.

I have better things to do with my time.

-Zeno
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-12-2005, 12:58 AM
BarronVangorToth BarronVangorToth is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

[ QUOTE ]

I have better things to do with my time.


[/ QUOTE ]


We can only hope that the Double D Gang of Diablo and Daryn aren't as responsible with their time.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-12-2005, 01:58 AM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,519
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

Zeno,

Someone, perhaps a wiser man than me, gave me the following advice regarding this episode:

First off, there's no question that you are correct about the poker strategy involved. I think what's best is for you not to comment any more. Your points have been clearly made... It should be clear to everyone that Barron is a little on tilt and isn't completely clear in his thinking when responding to you.

I've decided to take those words to heart and just let my statements in the other thread stand. I summarized a number of my thoughts (and enumerated a number of Barron's) regarding this issue in this post in the other thread. At this point, I'm sure Barron is both unwilling and unable to see the error of his ways in the face of overwhelming reason and rationality from all sides, so I don't plan to comment any further in this matter.

You, of course, are welcome to try.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-12-2005, 02:41 AM
Zeno Zeno is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 1,599
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

[ QUOTE ]
You, of course, are welcome to try.

[/ QUOTE ]


I reached the same conclusion, see my last response to Barron.

[ QUOTE ]
Someone, perhaps a wiser man than me, gave me the following advice regarding this episode:


First off, there's no question that you are correct about the poker strategy involved. I think what's best is for you not to comment any more. Your points have been clearly made... It should be clear to everyone that Barron is a little on tilt and isn't completely clear in his thinking when responding to you.


[/ QUOTE ]

A wise man, indeed.

I think I'll go read some Seneca or perhaps some Marcus Aurelius.

For the record and as a last comment to Barron, I carry no ill will towards you. In my opinion, I think you are too abstinate and somewhat misguided.

But I wish you the best in both your writing and poker playing careers. I hope you do well by both of them.

-Zeno
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:34 AM
phish phish is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 47
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

Looking at the two recent Baron articles, I think Diablo has summed it up correctly. Baron looks at a hand where the outcome was favorable (last month it was hitting a gutshot after calling multiple bets on flop and turn) and then comes up with some nonsensical rationale about how he played it like an expert.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:48 AM
Mason Malmuth Mason Malmuth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,831
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

Hi Everyone:

I agree with the "Masked Man." This article in question, as well as the pros and cons of Barron's strategy have been well discussed and analyzed, and I think it's fairly clear what everyone thinks whether it is correct or misguided. So in my opinion, it's time to move on to other subjects.

Best wishes,
mason
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-12-2005, 05:03 AM
Mason Malmuth Mason Malmuth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,831
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

Hi phish:

I disagree with you here. Let me talk hypothetically. That is I won't address anything apecific written by any specific author.

If you go to your favorite cardroom and pick up (perhaps) your favorite magazine and read something stupid, there's no recourse. I guess you could send a letter to the editor but it's doubtful that it would ever be published.

On our Internet magazine, that's not the case. If an author gets an article published, and it just happens to be flawed, even if the flaw is a small one, he'll hear about it from our posters. That's part of our policy of holding our writers to a higher standard.

Now put your feet in the writer's shoes. Even though virtually all writers believe that what they write is quite good, they all know that when we put their article up, they may have to address issues they never even thought of.

As you can see, it's not as easy as it appears for someone to have an article published in our Two Plus Two Internet Magazine. So in that sense, it's probably best to take it easy, but not to easy, on our writers when you just happen to think they have presented a misconception.

By the way, none of this applies to anything that Ray Zee writes.

Best wishes,
Mason
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-12-2005, 08:14 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo

I just read the article and this was the first thread I saw about it. I dont want to be redundant, but I am glad to see that people aren't just eating that garbage up.

I see so many similar hands get praised. I dont want to make any specific examples, especially because some of my favorite players are sometimes guilty (which ill justify at the end).

There are these crazy parlay's that people make often "scarecard draws" others are "longball bluffs" and so on. When they work people say "see, look how clever I am" especially when the EXACT odds on certain events are impossible to ever figure out such as chances of a player folding, etc.

When you see pros make "crazy parlays" like barron's, it is only possible because hands aren't independent of eachother, especially in tournaments. As terrible as Barron's hand looks for anyone who values money, plays like it often gain marginal value from other hands. Just like "advertising" it is a budget that cannot be made to tight.

Last week I was eliminated from a tournament by a rivered gutshot. I thought he was on the flushdraw so he called .7pot bets on the flop and turn(allin). This crazy parlay is ok, because I know he also thinks people who hit lottery jackpots also made good decisions and he doesn't write poker articles.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.