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  #1  
Old 11-17-2004, 06:41 AM
Nate tha' Great Nate tha' Great is offline
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Default PLO8 preflop

A'ight, I'm giving PLO8 a try at the Party Poker $25 buy-in level. My postflop instincts actually seem to be okay, but I'm completely lost when it comes to preflop strategy. Can somebody give me some basic pointers, like the five most important preflop concepts? Please assume that I'm a retard when it comes to this stuff.

thanks,
Nate

EDIT: To clarify, I'm mainly thinking about limping versus raising decisions. I have a basic idea of what constitutes a playable O8B hand.
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2004, 09:12 AM
Iceman Iceman is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

[ QUOTE ]
A'ight, I'm giving PLO8 a try at the Party Poker $25 buy-in level. My postflop instincts actually seem to be okay, but I'm completely lost when it comes to preflop strategy. Can somebody give me some basic pointers, like the five most important preflop concepts? Please assume that I'm a retard when it comes to this stuff.

thanks,
Nate

EDIT: To clarify, I'm mainly thinking about limping versus raising decisions. I have a basic idea of what constitutes a playable O8B hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should almost never raise preflop. If you can get all-in with something like AA2x, then do so. But otherwise, hands run close in value preflop so that raises usually gain little or nothing in EV terms, and you don't want to knock out weaker hands that might give you action later. The real money in this game is made postflop.
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2004, 09:22 AM
Nate tha' Great Nate tha' Great is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A'ight, I'm giving PLO8 a try at the Party Poker $25 buy-in level. My postflop instincts actually seem to be okay, but I'm completely lost when it comes to preflop strategy. Can somebody give me some basic pointers, like the five most important preflop concepts? Please assume that I'm a retard when it comes to this stuff.

thanks,
Nate

EDIT: To clarify, I'm mainly thinking about limping versus raising decisions. I have a basic idea of what constitutes a playable O8B hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should almost never raise preflop. If you can get all-in with something like AA2x, then do so. But otherwise, hands run close in value preflop so that raises usually gain little or nothing in EV terms, and you don't want to knock out weaker hands that might give you action later. The real money in this game is made postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if I have a good multiway hand like A23x double-suited and I'm on the Button? I've had some success raising something like half the pot in these cases against bad, loose opponents (e.g. most everyone in the really easy games that I'm playing) who will call and then get themselves potstuck.
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  #4  
Old 11-17-2004, 09:41 AM
bugstud bugstud is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

I just don't like plo8 for these reasons. I think preflop play varies a lot from LL to higher limit and SH as well.
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  #5  
Old 11-17-2004, 12:06 PM
Yads Yads is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

[ QUOTE ]
You should almost never raise preflop. If you can get all-in with something like AA2x, then do so. But otherwise, hands run close in value preflop so that raises usually gain little or nothing in EV terms, and you don't want to knock out weaker hands that might give you action later. The real money in this game is made postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do not listen to this terrible advice. Omaha8 hands do not run close together in value, the top hands outperform average hands on an incredible scale. You want to raise with good scooping hands or really strong one way hands. You want to charge people that are playing chump hands a premium.
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  #6  
Old 11-17-2004, 12:19 PM
nicky g nicky g is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

I lean more to what Iceman said. The hands do run close together in value preflop. That doesn't mean you should play any hand - you should play the hands that are easist to play well post flop. But all-in preflop a very good hand has nothing like the advantage over a crappy hand as a good hold'em hand does over a bad one, or even a good Omaha high hand. I wouldn't advocate never raising, but more rarely than in other games. Especially in a 50x buyin game, where tow raise can commit you. The main play in PLO8 is on the flop and turn.

One decent place to raise is in the cutoff or near it - position is important in this game so it's not a bad idea to try to buy it.
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2004, 02:50 PM
Yads Yads is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

Yes maybe the top hands run closer together in value, because unlike holdem Omaha really doesn't have the equivalent of the top 5 like holdem ie (AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AKs), but a hand like AA2K single suited will beat the crap out of random junk hands like QJ82
it will scoop 3/4 of the time, win high more than 7/10 of the time and win low almost 85% of the time. It's ev is 7:3. And you would not raise this hand? Whereas you compare a good hand like AQs vs a random junk hand like 79o, it has even less equity than the above scenario about 2:1.
Yet who wouldn't raise AQs if facing no raises?
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2004, 03:04 PM
dogsballs dogsballs is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

I'm with nicky g here. good post.

I very rarely raise since I don't like to give away my A2 likelihoodness (unless it's super premium). I'll put in little bump raises in LP with various geod hands...As4s56 etc. Build a small pot and mebbe buy position.
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2004, 03:16 PM
Iceman Iceman is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should almost never raise preflop. If you can get all-in with something like AA2x, then do so. But otherwise, hands run close in value preflop so that raises usually gain little or nothing in EV terms, and you don't want to knock out weaker hands that might give you action later. The real money in this game is made postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do not listen to this terrible advice. Omaha8 hands do not run close together in value, the top hands outperform average hands on an incredible scale.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's only true in showdown simulations against large fields of random hands. It's not true at all in real game conditions - shorthanded fields with mostly good hands.

[ QUOTE ]
You want to raise with good scooping hands or really strong one way hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you want to narrow the field when you have a one-way hand? Getting it heads-up when you have a one-way hand is a disaster. And if you had a scoop hand, why knock out hands that are much weaker in at least one direction?

[ QUOTE ]
You want to charge people that are playing chump hands a premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you to make sure they'll stay in the pot so they'll potentially give you lots of action with second-best hands postflop, not risk knocking them out just to maybe gain a small amount of EV. If your raise gets rid of most of the chump hands, one premium hand is rarely much better than other premium hands, and one or two randomish hands don't do that badly in most cases. Even a raised preflop pot is insignificant compared to the potential win postflop from loose callers.
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2004, 03:25 PM
Yads Yads is offline
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Default Re: PLO8 preflop

It's the same reason you want to raise with good hands in holdem. You want to get your money in when you have the best of it. Do you ever slow play pocket rockets in holdem? No, because you have the best of it, so you want hands that do not have the best of it to put money in the pot. So why would you slowplay great hands in Omaha?
Omaha unlike holdem is more about preflop hand selection than it is about post flop play. Not sure if you agree with this, but whatever. So why not get your money in when you have by far the best of it, pre flop? Obviously you don't necessarily want to raise from early position just to end up heads up with a hand that has a good chance of beating you (like you pointed out). But if you can trap players that have already put in a bet with junk hands, why on earth would you not raise?
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