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  #11  
Old 12-18-2005, 04:40 PM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

PJ,

He tabled the winning hand. He should get the pot. What is your question?
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  #12  
Old 12-18-2005, 04:53 PM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

[ QUOTE ]
PJ,

He tabled the winning hand. He should get the pot. What is your question?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard dozens of stories of guys tabling the winning hand, but then one of their cards slowly slips off the table and hits the ground. The hand is declared dead and someone else gets the pot. This guy's hand was tabled, but released, then mucked by the dealer and mixed into a bunch of other face down cards. When a guy's pocket aces accidentally slide off the table, I don't think he should have to forfeit the pot either -- but them's the rules.
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  #13  
Old 12-18-2005, 05:18 PM
Randy_Refeld Randy_Refeld is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard dozens of stories of guys tabling the winning hand, but then one of their cards slowly slips off the table and hits the ground. The hand is declared dead

[/ QUOTE ]

These hands all took place in places where they are unfamiliar with the rules and procedures of poker or with inexperienced floorstaff or both.
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2005, 09:17 PM
bigfishead bigfishead is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

Why is it you or others want to bend the rules to your own satisfaction. The most basic of rules in 99% of poker rooms is "CARDS SPEAK". If they were tabled, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. Dont be a jaggoff....dont whine how I think I should get the pot or a portion or anything the such. This is routine. Things happen. Dealer misssed it but the cards spoke and the table saw it. The pot was awarded accordingly.

Yes you are being a nit. But alas you also did push the pot to the winner. As should be. just dont add any "but" to it afterwards. move on to the next hand.
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2005, 09:35 PM
Al_Capone_Junior Al_Capone_Junior is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

Perhaps the most basic rule of making decisions is that you want the best hand to win the pot, and you don't want the best hand to LOSE the pot on a technicality.

If the guy clearly had a flush, and his hand was accidentally misread, then mucked, he should get the pot anyway.

al
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2005, 11:40 PM
HDPM HDPM is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

I fully understand why people want to give the winning hand the pot. The problem here is that there will always be doubt what the winning hand is. If I didn't specifically see it there is no way I am going to trust other players. The dealer obviously didn't know and shouldn't be listened to.

I say old time Vegas approach. So If all the players agree that the player with the mucked hand had the flush, the floor should count the pot, award it to the OP, and pay the player with the mucked hand the same amount, taking the pot out of the dealer's pay. That is the old school Las Vegas approach, and makes dealers more apprecitive of those $.50 tips. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Harsh, yes, but the dealers can't make horrible errors like mucking the winning hand. It will always lead to at least one or two bitter customers. In a huge game the dealers may not be able to afford a big pot, but then the house should go to the tape.
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  #17  
Old 12-19-2005, 12:19 AM
phish phish is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

I think the floor made a terrible ruling.

As a matter of principle, the awarding of a pot cannot be based on what some people say they saw. Because from your point of view, they could all be partners. I feel very strongly that the winning hand has to be readily available for all (most importantly the losing hands) to see. If his hand is in the muck, and the pot has been pushed to you, then the hand should have been declared over.

Now if his hand had been accidentally turned over and everyone (including you) agrees which cards they are. And even if it accidentally touches the muck, the pot should then be rewarded to him.

But if there is no way for YOU to acertain for certain which cards are this, then his hand should be dead.

Poker is not a game which can rely on trusting people's words as to what they have. You have to be able to see his hand.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2005, 12:52 AM
Randy_Refeld Randy_Refeld is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

[ QUOTE ]
As a matter of principle, the awarding of a pot cannot be based on what some people say they saw.

[/ QUOTE ]

By rule if at least 3 players can confirm what the player said he had he wins the pot.

Edit to add:

[ QUOTE ]
If his hand is in the muck, and the pot has been pushed to you, then the hand should have been declared over.

[/ QUOTE ]

The previous hand is over when the cards are riffled for the next hand.
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  #19  
Old 12-19-2005, 01:52 AM
bigt2k4 bigt2k4 is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

Aren't you aware of the muck rule? Next time grab his cards before he shows them and throw them into the muck,(the 'ol chuck 'n' muck) that way you win anyway.
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2005, 02:30 AM
SpaceAce SpaceAce is offline
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Default Re: Commerce floor ruling

[ QUOTE ]

By rule if at least 3 players can confirm what the player said he had he wins the pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's good to know. I'll never lose another hand I play, I'll just make sure to be there with friends. This rule sucks.

SpaceAce
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