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  #31  
Old 08-20-2005, 02:19 PM
Nigel Nigel is offline
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Default Re: Where is the money coming from in high stakes poker?

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Andy Beal is unquestionably a very intelligent businessman.

But he was the biggest poker fish in history, even though he played very well.

THE critical decision in poker is game selection. If you play against better players, you will CERTAINLY lose over the long term.

He played against the best in the world and lost over $10,000,000. That makes him the biggest fish of all time.

Regards,

Al

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Is it really that simple? Didn't Beal almost bust the pros bankroll?

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Yes, and he beat the majority of them. They are also unwilling to play at the stakes he would like.

I think calling Andy Beal a fish is ridiculous.
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  #32  
Old 08-20-2005, 03:40 PM
Orpheus Orpheus is offline
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Default Re: Where is the money coming from in high stakes poker?

Out of fairness, I should have mentioned that good online players can also help fund the B&M tables. The casino setting and table rules can be unsettling (vs. paying off/on at will in your underwear). Single tabling the slower tables may lead to boredom, and definitely increases variance. Table selection/changing is an entirely different issue. Reading/hiding physical tells becomes important. The minimum B&M stakes are often higher than their accustomed play, and the visceral impact of physical chips and money can make them scared money when they're down.

As I said, I have full respect for B&M players, but by calling 5/10 "high stakes, the OP was clearly asking about ONLINE play. The influx of 5/10 B&M (low stakes) players probably contributes greatly to online "high stakes" 5/10.

The convenience of online vs. B&M play, the larger table availability, the allure of slightly lower stakes (that may still betougher because they are not the lowest stakes online), plus the common drive to "get even", may lead B&M players to return periodically despite many losing online sessions. (A few winning sessions will only increase their play.) On the other hand, online players who lose in B&Ms are less likely to make repeat B&M trips to play at higher than their accustomed stakes; it's easier to go back to their familiar lower stake online game and "catch up" there.
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  #33  
Old 08-20-2005, 05:04 PM
Jorge10 Jorge10 is offline
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Default Re: Where is the money coming from in high stakes poker?

Something also I found out this weekend, the amount of hands you play in live is much smaller, it takes online players a while to figure out they are not long time winners, usually when you clear the 50k hand beating a level, you can consistently beat it, but to reach 50k hands live would take several months.

Which means people can play live just going up and down, up and down, never realizing, that they arent going to beat the level long term and move down. They could be playing 5/10 forever because it takes months of careful record keeping and what not. Most people dont do that, the average person will never realize they are long term losers.

Figured this out this weekend, because some old lady kept trying to get me to play more hands in a crazy high low game when I was getting crap, in her mind she was a long term winner, also she kept saying it, lol. I saw her play for several hours as I was folding a lot, and she could not be a long term winner the way she played, but she had never realized this.
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  #34  
Old 08-21-2005, 01:20 AM
BigBaitsim (milo) BigBaitsim (milo) is offline
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Default Re: Where is the money coming from in high stakes poker?

When I lived in rural VA, I played in a regular game at the Moose Lodge. These were blue collar guys who played 5/10 and 10/20. Badly. Some of them took pot shots online, and started at the same levels, generally 5/10. They lost.
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  #35  
Old 08-21-2005, 06:28 AM
Al Schoonmaker Al Schoonmaker is offline
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Default Re: Where is the money coming from in high stakes poker?

You wrote: "Don't you think the "Andy played well" party line from Doyle and the other Big Game players may be just a continuation of Doyle's story in SuperSystem 1?"

No, I think there is significant evidence that he played well. For a while he was ahead several million dollars.

Perhaps he was just lucky, but anybody who could beat the best for millions is very tough. He just wasn't tough enough.

Regards,

Al
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  #36  
Old 08-21-2005, 06:31 AM
Al Schoonmaker Al Schoonmaker is offline
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Default Re: Where is the money coming from in high stakes poker?

You wrote: "I think calling Andy Beal a fish is ridiculous."

He lost OVER TEN MILLION DOLLARS.

If that doesn't make him a fish, how much does he have to lose to qualify?

But he was even more foolish. He often played against a series of opponents. When one great player became tired, another would replace him. If Andy was beating expert A, he was replaced by expert B.

Allowing them to play as a "tag team" was incredibly stupid. Not only were they better players; they were also more rested, and they were able to compare notes, discuss strategy, and bring their COMBINED abilities against him.

If giving such huge extra edges to the world's best players is not fishy, what is?

The purpose of poker is NOT to prove that you're almost good enough to win, nor is it to prove how macho you are. It is very simple: TO WIN MONEY.

Regards,

Al
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  #37  
Old 08-21-2005, 07:59 AM
goofball goofball is offline
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Default Re: Where is the money coming from in high stakes poker?

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The purpose of poker is NOT to prove that you're almost good enough to win, nor is it to prove how macho you are. It is very simple: TO WIN MONEY.

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I agree with you that Andy Beal was a fish in the game he chose. But I believe you yourself wrote that people play poker for many different reasons. I certainly play for money, as do most people. Andy Beal however doesn't need money, there's no way he would play for money. I suppose that in order for playing poker for money to be worth it for Andy Beal from an oppurtunity cost perspective, he would have to player higher than 4k/8k. He played because he is highly competitive and wanted to beat the best.
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