Is This Common at COMMERCE?

Posted this under B&M but no replies, so I'm trying this forum.

Just returned from my first trip to the West Coast in years and this my first time ever to play poker in CA. I decided to play at Commerce Jul 3 & 4 and was impressed by its size and the wide variety of game selection. The first night was packed and put my name on the list for 4 different limits. In spite of the 7 or 8 games in progress in each of the 4 lmits I chose, it took about 1/2 hour for me to be called in a 6-12 game.

I confirmed what I have heard or read that games were generally loose with lots of gambooling and bad beats galore which did not bother me. However, I noticed during the game which was lively to begin with, 1 or 2 Asian ladies, who appeared to be locals betting/folding out of turn or mucking face up with a game in progress. This happened repeatedly with 2 or 3 different dealers who never said a word of warning to the offending parties. I kept my mouth shut too as I was using the free additional info to my advantage. Most of the players were just busy gabbing and playing with their cards anyway that the actions were helping more than hurting me. Just before I left, I approached and informed a floorperson whose uninterested reply was "they're not supposed to". The same incidents were repeated the next evening except that there was only 1 offender. Heck, I did not really mind 'cause a booked some good wins in both sessions.

The questions are: Is this normally tolerated at Commerce? What about the other LA casinos like HP, the Bike and others?

Just curious.

[monkeyboy]

What a coincidence... I was there for the first time that same weekend and after playing for about a year in Northern California card houses, i was really surprised by the lax rules imposed on the players at commerce.

The only thing that really annoyed me was the string betting by two older guys and after I called them on it, they turned hostile...

The action was nice and the tables were generally good pickings (a good assortment of crappy players), but i think i prefer the atmosphere of the northern california card houses (even though the lower limit tables tend to me much more challenging)...

[Josh W]

Painfully common.

And dealer abuse.

They just don't care. I've complained to many of the top section floormen about this ad nauseum. And he'll say something to an offender, give a scornful look, and do it again. Wash rinse, repeat.

They never actually do anything about it. They joke about it. If a lady throws her cards face up, and the floorman sees it, he'll ask the dealer "why'd you give her such lousy cards?"

I've spoken with the VP of player relations about it. His response is that with so much competition, they don't want to lose the customers.

I told him I'll come back occassionaly to see if things have cleaned up. Until then, I'll just go back once a month or so, to see if they've adapted some decency. So far, no such luck.

I've decided that there are better places to play and spend my time than Commerce. I told a floorman once about an abusive player:

You can either have players like him, or players like us

(5 of us were complaining at the table, and all of us were sitting out until something was done). His response was "until he does something again, I can't do anything" (The offender just threw cards at the dealer, and hit a guy in seat 1 in the face with said cards).

I left, the others, as far as I know, are still sitting out.

But that's how Commerce wants to run their club. it's their ball, we have to let them play.

Josh

[Ray Zee]

i will take the other side. whats the big deal. they are losing players and it really doesnt hurt anyone except them. or maybe someone in a bad seat. but in general it helps you make money and keeps them playing. if poker had strict rules that had to be followed you would lose many of the fools that throw off money.
if what they are doing is chasing away other losers than maybe they need to be brought under control more.

[Josh W]

If money is everything to you, I agree that you are 100% right about acting out of turn, etc.

I don't have a problem with that nearly as much as the rampant dealer and player abuse.

Josh

I was back to my usual haunt at Taj this past Saturday and coincidentally sat next to a guy who claimed he's a floor person for The Bike. I related to him my experience at Commerce and he said that "unless you're playing at the high limit area, that's Commerce to you."

I sure did use the free info to my advantage. Did not see/experience any dealer abuse, so no reason to rock the boat. In fact, the game I was in was so happy-go-lucky that one jolly Asian lady who was busy chasing and catching up, (she caught my flopped set with a runner-runner flush once) that she gave 2 new players $105 each in exchange for their C bills saying that the extra 5 bucks were for good luck. She eventually donated much more than that later in the game, and so did others. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[bigfishead]

The not uncommon Las Vegas professional attitude.

Let me explain. A short true story. And I know you'll relate as you know the places I am speakin of.

Go back 6 yrs to Northern California and the SF peninsula.
You had 1 card club, Artichoke Joes. roughly 12-25 tables on a weekend. Dealer abuse was tolerated. players berating players was ok, acting out of turn. basically the floor didnt care as long as the rake was there. They never gave the customer the time of day.

Then Lucky Chances opens.....literally 5 minutes away.

21 tables....PACKED! bring out the portables!

Run down to AJ's....hmmm 6 tables.

So what happened? We got more customers off the planes in SF? I say not. But a better attitude and no abuse allowed brought in more losing players. The RECREATIONAL players.
We MUST have the RECREATIONAL players to GROW the business also. These players get scared away when bad things happen at the table and MGMNT does nothing. What about the railbird new player waiting for a seat sees some crap at the table, a player loses a hand throws the cards and the floor makes a joke about it? That player LEAVES and doesnt come back. They are already somewhat intimidated. Now they are gone. I'm all for 86ing players whether for the nite the week or forever that get abusive. Look at the LONG run game, not the session. Hmmmmm...that's a novel thought. Maybe I should put it in a book.

Off my soapbox...hopefully it makes sense.

[TJSWAN]

Lucky Chances is still the better of the 2. And I base this on one factor: Happy Employees [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] . They just seem a bit on the sour side at AJ's. I recently saw 2 floorpersons get into a very heated exchange that had no business being held on the floor. When players and the other employees see that kind of behavior it only causes harm. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Things just seem a lot happier at Lucky's with little dealer or player abuse. And everyone smiles
[img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Tim

[Ray Zee]

well i am not a vegas pro by any means. also who is talking about dealer abuse or player abuse. the post, reread it please. talks about players folding out of turn and turning their cards face up. that can and is usually a fun game. i am talking about trying to make poker a game of rules and not being fun. or interesting. i do not condone any kind of abuse. but the dealers dont have to take it. and it isnt the players job to defend the dealers.

artichoke joes lost business because it treated players poorly througout its history. not because it allowed dealer abuse. players go where they are treated best and the best games are. not where the dealers are treated well.