Bad river bet? JJ on a monotone overcards flop

AZK · #1 01-05-2005, 01:48 PM

Greektown 2-2-5, table is well...typical for greektown, a little crazy with a nice mix of lags, short stacks etc. Everyone has been straddling so it's playing like a 5/10 game, I oblige. 4-5 limpers to me and I raise $60 to go with black jacks and $700+ behind. I get 4 callers, whoops. In hindsight, I either should have limped if I wanted to see a flop, or raised to $100 if I didn't. Anything in between 10 - 100 seemed to be getting called.

Flop (~$250ish) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Checks around

Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet out $150, everyone folds to the BB, who is a nice guy but a way too loose preflop and clear postflop, if he is betting or raising postflop he has a hand, if he is check/calling he is on some sort of draw or the nuts. He calls.

River 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

He looks at me, says he thinks we are splitting the pot and then checks. If I check I lose, and I think he said this to me to sort of get an idea where I stand. So I say, "I don't think we are splitting, I have to bet." I bet $250. Thoughts?

pologuy64 · #2 01-05-2005, 03:29 PM

I think this Play depends on your read on the guy. Some guys are serious when they say stuff like that, but me myself.....I could see myself saying that knowing i spike the flush, just because i know you would shoot and the pot and then blast it always up once u put that extra 250. As i said it depends on the player, but i can see myself saying that to get sum1 to bet.

PEACE

AZK · #3 01-05-2005, 07:02 PM

Anyone else? I had the vague sense that my turn and river bets were too small, but I only have 700 in my stack. Villian had about 5k in front. Based on what he said and given his previous betting patterns, I felt that he was more looking for a draw that missed, probably Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x or something to that extent. Still debating whether or not he would have called my bet with something like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], he probably would have, so it might have been a bad play...

MikeyEdge · #4 01-06-2005, 04:34 PM

I would probably have to check. I would guess he has something like A-5 suited (not hearts). The pot is already decent sized if you can pull off a win if he missed flush/straight draw and consider yourself lucky with that flop.

What do you if he reraises you? Now you're in trouble and you just wasted $250.

coltrane · #5 01-06-2005, 04:53 PM

what was your intention with the turn/river bets?....value betting?......are you bluffing the river with a pair of jacks?.....if so, is this guy with $5k gonna lay down an ace for $250?.....I could see maybe you think with his comment that he has a king and you bet to represent the ace and take him off of it, but it's highly player dependent as to whether he'll call you or not - and the $250 is a terrible amount IMO......

if you were value betting the turn, check behind the river.....because if by the river, you have now put villain on a missed draw or an ace, check behind (for obvious reasons).....if you put him on a king and think he'll lay down, push all-in (the pot is like $550 by the river).....

NickPoker · #6 01-06-2005, 04:59 PM

He is obviously represnting an 8, and he is telling you he thinks you have an 8. If you think he is telling the truth, you have 2 options All In or large raise to get him to fold or check. If you think he is lying you need to decide what he wants you to do, and then do the opposite. The only hands that he could have that would benefit you to bet with outside of the 8 would be an A or K.

With all that being said my guess to what he is trying to accomplish is to see a showdown without a bet, so he probably either has an Ace or he has an 8 and doesn't want to be put to the test. If he does not want to be put to the test, he can proably be pushed out with a large bet. If you don't bet you are surrending the pot, if you bet and he calls, you lost. So it depends on how much you want to gamble. I think your $250 bet was too small, it might push out an Ace, but I doubt it pushes out an 8. I would of checked or gone all in.

lapoker17 · #7 01-06-2005, 08:31 PM

Um, I don't think he's representing an 8 - not even sure where that came from.

Anyway, as the straddler, I'm jacking it up huge with limpers to me if I have ANY kind of hand, down to 66 or AJ, hell, I might even make it $150 with 22. With JJ, you absolutley have the best hand preflop and should make it more like $150 or $200 and take the dead money rith there.

MindGamez · #8 01-06-2005, 09:21 PM

No, he's saying he got Ace/rag... When the 8 paired on the river making a baord of A K 8 8 x then if hero has AQ and Villain has A2, they both play 2 pair, king kicker...

Or he could be BSing you

AZK · #9 01-06-2005, 11:22 PM

MindGamez - hit it on the nose as for what I think his comment meant...when he said we are chopping my reply was intended to make him not call with A-rag, thinking that I had a higher 2 pair be it AK or a boat.

As for the other comments, I bet the turn to see who was staying in and who wasn't. I raise, a billion callers, a scary monotone flop and it gets checked around? Either someone is sandbagging or no one hit anything, as preflop raiser, I think I have the best chance of representing something on this board, the turn bet is meant to see who still wants to play, I have no problem betting out and the folding to a reraise or slowing down against a call (depending from who). As for the river, I made this bet because part of me thought my hand was good and villian had indeed called with a single heart hoping to catch, and also because of his comment. I suppose a lot of people can trick you by saying things like that to you, but I thought I could get him to fold a better hand if he did have one by betting. In hindsight, you're right, I probably should have bet more. The whole point was moot as he showed me J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and then mucked, indeed he was trying to get to a cheap showdown. This villian is a nice old guy, I don't see him saying something like that and then coming over the top with the nuts...