I got laughed at today....

Mr. Curious · #1 08-02-2005, 03:38 AM

I just sat down at a live $4/8 game while waiting for a tournament to start. I haven't played limit in a quite a while because I've been enjoying no limit, but this casino has a limited spread of games and this was the only open seat. Anyways, on to what happended.

I have not played with any of these players before.

It is my second hand and I am MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG calls, UTG+1 -> MP2 fold, I raise, CO folds, button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Pot: 3.5 BB (-.5 for rake)

It is checked to me, I bet, everyone calls

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Pot: 5.5 BB

It is checked to me, I bet, SB raises, BB folds, UTG folds, I 3-bet, SB calls

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot: 11.5 BB

SB checks, I check

I flip over my KQ and SB shows AK for TPTK.
He starts laughing and shaking his head in an arrogant way. He says, "you had that..." and then "nice hand, nice hand."

UTG laughs and says, "nice kicker".

I didn't reply because there was no reason too, but it left me feeling self conscious. It didn't affect my play, but was still strange. I had seen SB before and always gotten the "he's a jerk inside" feeling from him. Too bad it proved true...

btw - I probably should not have 3-bet the turn given that SB was an unknown.

Alex/Mugaaz · #2 08-02-2005, 03:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I just sat down at a live $4/8 game while waiting for a tournament to start. I haven't played limit in a quite a while because I've been enjoying no limit, but this casino has a limited spread of games and this was the only open seat. Anyways, on to what happended.

I have not played with any of these players before.

It is my second hand and I am MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG calls, UTG+1 -> MP2 fold, I raise, CO folds, button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Pot: 3.5 BB (-.5 for rake)

It is checked to me, I bet, everyone calls

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Pot: 5.5 BB

It is checked to me, I bet, SB raises, BB folds, UTG folds, I 3-bet, SB calls

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Pot: 11.5 BB

SB checks, I check

I flip over my KQ and SB shows AK for TPTK.
He starts laughing and shaking his head in an arrogant way. He says, "you had that..." and then "nice hand, nice hand."

UTG laughs and says, "nice kicker".

I didn't reply because there was no reason too, but it left me feeling self conscious. It didn't affect my play, but was still strange. I had seen SB before and always gotten the "he's a jerk inside" feeling from him. Too bad it proved true...

btw - I probably should not have 3-bet the turn given that SB was an unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the only mistake was not betting the river.

A_C_Slater · #3 08-02-2005, 04:43 AM

A turn check/raise almost always indicates great strength. Especially if they only check/call the flop. I think just calling the turn is the play here, but there is certainly nothing ludicrous or laughable about your play raising the turn with 12 probable outs and eight spiffy clean ones (discounting the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].)

EDIT: SB and UTG sound like a couple of old rocks. Plus no reraise with the AK makes it seem even more so. Were they?

The Goober · #4 08-02-2005, 04:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
btw - I probably should not have 3-bet the turn given that SB was an unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call the turn CR, I think you have to call the river bet too - you can't be sure enogh to fold getting 10:1. So, since you have to call, your line (3-betting and checking behind) costs the same if you lose. If you catch a spade, though, he may check-call the river. So, your line assures you an extra bet if you make your flush. nh.

SNOWBALL138 · #5 08-02-2005, 04:57 AM

you played the hand perfectly on the turn. You know that you are going to call a river bet, so you might as well raise the turn, and then check behind on the river unimproved.

SNOWBALL138 · #6 08-02-2005, 05:08 AM

I don't like betting the river here unless you have some kind of read, or you improve. A lot of players would check raise the turn w/ 2 pair, but check-call the river to a turn 3 bet.
I'm not saying that betting the river is horrible. I'm just saying that its probably not for value. Yeah, a worse hand will call you, but will a worse hand check-raise the turn?

Lets say for some reason you are 100 percent sure that you aren't looking at AK. If you are up against a king with a weaker kicker, then its KT or KJ. There are more sets and two pair combos out there than KJ combos.

Also, you almost never run into players who check-raise bluff. If you were in first position, I like bet-folding. Having position here dictates that you check behind.

steamboatin · #7 08-02-2005, 08:32 AM

Don't worry about what someone that doesn't raise AK preflop thinks, they were just lucky your tourney started and you left the table.

jmgurgeh · #8 08-02-2005, 08:59 AM

Case of "I feel better about myself if I put somebody else down." If UTG is making a snide remark about how weak second kicker is then he was either beyond stupid or was helping orchestrate the situation to purposefully put you on tilt. SB is just a moron who probably says things like "AK is a drawing hand, so you shouldn't raise PF with it." As has already been mentioned, you played fine except you should bet the river. My guess is your opponent got scared and when he won he wanted to "get you back" for scaring him. I hope you go back to this game with a mousy look and play off the image they've constructed so that they'll be that much more surprised when you take their money.

Derek in NYC · #9 08-02-2005, 09:44 AM

The three bet on the turn is unnecessary but not horrible. Read on the bettor is the key. But you should bet the river in this situation, as you may have counterfeited two pair.

Mr. Graff · #10 08-02-2005, 10:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Case of "I feel better about myself if I put somebody else down."

[/ QUOTE ]
This is really all there is to it. Don't let it affect you, that way he wins.

The hand was well played against the average player. Against a passive, 3-betting is perhaps a bit over the top but no biggie, especially considering the number of outs you have.