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Old 12-29-2005, 12:48 AM
CarlosChadha CarlosChadha is offline
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Default Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

I played this hand last night in a full 50/100 stud high game at Bellagio. The structure is $10 BI, $15 ante. All players except for the bring-in are tight, passive, 70-year-old's. The bring-in is about 40 and just sat down at the table on my right w/ about 100,000 in 100's and seems to be very aggressive. I had only played at the table for a couple hours, so I didn't have any particularly good reads on any of the players, other than the general profile I gave. My image was very fast and aggressive, and I had been showing down and winning with many big hands (rolled 3s, pocket As).

Here is the hand as best I can remember it:

3rd: A 2 brings it in on my right, and I raise with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and an 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] doorcard. There is 1 dead 7, a 9 and no other higher cards behind me. A 4 and a 5 call behind, everyone else folds, the bring-in reraises, and we all call.

4th: Everyone besides me pairs their doorcards, and I catch the case 7. The 5s check, the 2s check, I bet $100, the 4s raise, the 5s cold calls $200, the 2s fold, I 3-bet, the 4s call, and then the 5s 4-bet. I ask the 5s if he "has quads or something" and he give me a small grin. The cap in the game is 5 bets, but I just call the 4-bet, as do the 4s.

5th: I catch the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the other 2 guys rag off. The 5s bet and I think for a second. I decide that the suprise 4 bet really looks like quads, but I am not sure. I decide to raise to figure out if the guy has quads or not. I resolve that if the 5 3 bets that I will fold (since I'd be drawing dead), because it seems obvious that I have trip 8s, 7s or As. So I raise, the 4s fold, and the 5s 3-bets without hesitation. I think about it for a second and throw away my hand.

What do you guys think? Did I overthink the hand? I could have just called him down, which would have cost just $300 as opposed to the raise-fold line which cost $200. I thought about this hand for about 30 minutes, so I have some more thoughts, but this is all I was thinking at the time. Any comments on any parts of the hand?

Thanks,
Carlos
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:16 AM
lstream lstream is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

OK, I don't play these stakes but I think this is a bad time to be defining your hand. The guy knows he has you thinking quads, and by now he also figures you as a solid player. So he likely knows what your raise is trying to do - define your hand. With that knowledge, he is likely pretty certain he can get you to fold whether or not he has the quads by three betting.

I would go to the river as cheap as possible in this situation.
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

Tough hand. You have a 7 dead. He also sees you have a 7 dead. And may take that to think that you don't have set. BUt it is also true that he sees you betting and raising with a paired 5 doorcard, indicating you can beat 3 5's and his reraising indocates that he don't care if you have 3 7's. However, the odds of hitting quads in 4 cards are not great. It is also possible that if he was rolled up, he might have made a reraise on third, given the large field in the hand. There is also a lot of money in the pot and as such, it seems to me, that it pays to continue and call him down. The odds seem to warrant it. It's a cool laydown and it's great to make tough laydowns, but i prefer to take your holding to the river, even if I do it passivly by just calling. I admire your courage for the laydown, but you might be wrong. But then again, I have never played such a high limit.

Did you ever see what he actually had after?
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:40 AM
frappeboy frappeboy is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

Carlos,

I don't think I would ever make this fold especially after asking the guy if he has quads.. When you say that to him it makes it more likely he will try something against you.

Its very possible he started with a pair of fives, paired his door card, and slowplayed until all the action appeared on 4th, and then raised thinking his trip 5s are good. Now he may have filled on 5th street which is why he keeps on raising.

I know this all sounds like a long shot, but so is quad 5s. I think I would have raised 5th just like you did and then just called down. I don't think you can just call 5th street because it's just too likely you're ahead here. When he comes over the top hes representing either a boat or quads. One of those you are drawing dead against the other you definitely have odds to call down. He could even be fooling around with trip 5s who knows.

I really hope you made the right play here. If so he must still be very upset about it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:01 AM
BTirish BTirish is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

Well, the fold might be correct as you may be drawing dead. However, like you said, your information raise on 5th saves you only one bet if in fact you are dead, where if there's any doubt that he has quads you can call down for $300 and hopefully fill up. If you can think of no likely hand other than quads for the villain to have 4-bet with on 4th, then just fold on 5th and save the $200.

So, I'd say the play is either to call down or to fold on 5th, and I know I'd always lean towards calling down unless this opponent is really that tight-weak-passive. The reason I think there's more value in paying $300 to potentially win the pot than in the raise-fold line is that I don't think the information raise is "informative" enough on 5th street--he may have just filled up. You don't have a pair on board so he would always be ahead with a full house.
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:20 AM
Andy B Andy B is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

I've never laid a hand down in my life, and I don't think I'd start with this one. What do you think is more likely--that a guy in a $50/100 game is getting frisky with a big two pair, or that he's made quads? I'm seeing the river every time.

If this game is running in July, I could get myself into some serious trouble. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:21 AM
MrBlueNose MrBlueNose is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

[ QUOTE ]

Its very possible he started with a pair of fives, paired his door card,

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt he'd reraise 3rd with a pair of 5s.

He's either rolled, or has a big pair in the hole. As it's more likely that he has aces, kings or queens in the hole, I'm calling down without hesitation, especially as it's difficult for him to put you on trips.
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

Why couldn't he start with a pair of 5's with a high kicker? Thus leading to trip 5's when he pairs.
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Old 12-29-2005, 03:27 AM
MrBlueNose MrBlueNose is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

[ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't he start with a pair of 5's with a high kicker? Thus leading to trip 5's when he pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed the part that he was very aggressive. My bad.
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:35 AM
mscags mscags is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 50/100: Biggest laydown in my life, Idiot or Genius?

I dunno Carlos. This is a tough hand, but I think I need to see the river here. I think this guy plays a FH here exactly the same way. For just one more big bet I think you need to call down. Tough hand.

Mike
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