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  #11  
Old 12-19-2005, 04:39 PM
Mac Mac is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

I agree that the guys who are really killing the mid-limit stud games are playing more hands than I do. To that end, I think it's necessary to begin talking about profitable situations for pushing hands we wouldn't normally push.

uwda's coming out hard because the original post was punkish (by design, i think). My only problem is that in this specific hand, the move comes without a read on opponent. I would have liked it more if you said "i pushed this hard because of X", the aggression appears almost random.

- Mac
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2005, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

At 2/4, when I do not have a read on a player, I assume loose/passive. This is why I fold 5th.
However, I also know that the 5th st raise will sometimes work right there and then or on later streets and I guess it would be that much more effective at higher stakes.
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2005, 06:20 PM
MichaelOar MichaelOar is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

4th st is fine, but you're looking at big trouble once he pairs 5th. Maybe it's just me, but when he leads out, it isn't to represent 2 pr, it's because he doesn't want to miss a bet. If he were looking to make a play, I think many guys would check-raise here.

As someone else pointed out, in the best case scenario, he has something like (Ks Jc) Ac, you are just a small favorite. If he has a buried pair over fours or the Ace, you are big dog. You're also never going know where you're at until the showdown, as I think some guys are going to shut down after your 5th st raise even with aces up. Assuming he isn't a wuss, though, you can look forward to getting raised if he makes 2 pr. Personally, I don't think this is the kind of extra hand S+M+Z were referring to, because it is so difficult to know where you stand.

I don't think you mentioned anything in your original post, but did you put him on a hand, or were you just making a move for its own sake?

Michael
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2005, 08:32 PM
TheSalche TheSalche is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

I don't play at the higher limits (cause I like my money), but theres a few things curious about this guys' place.

1) He limped with an ace in a pretty good steal spot, all he really had to worry about was the queen. What do we think of villain's limp here? Does it mean he likely just has three high cards? Is he limping with split aces to "slowplay" them? Three spades is a possibility but not as likely as the other two. Maybe hes limping with some K X A?

2) Villain bet out twice with the better board and called a raise from Mike. When I play like this, it usually means I have aces up, and somehow my gut says "maybe hes rolled up ... get to a cheap showdown." That doesn't mean villain is playing like that too, but its a possibility. Another thing, if the villain really doesn have two high cards in the hole, shouldn't he be folding because you are representing something like rolled up or a big pair in the hole. Hero's board suggests that neither street helped much (except 99 in the hole).

Just a few things to ponder.

My personal take: there's a difference between pushing small edges and chip spewing blind aggression, this seems like spewage to me.
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2005, 08:39 PM
LostMyCaseMoney LostMyCaseMoney is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

Admittedly I'm too tight when playing Stud but I make the same play on fourth and fold on fifth. You're slightly ahead or way behind. You have no reason to think he's capable of laying down any sort of hand and raising there what are you going to when he three bets or leads on sixth. The little edge you might have will not make up for the times you're behind.
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2005, 09:44 PM
Andy B Andy B is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

I think the raise on fourth is fine, although I would tend to lean towards calling or maybe folding. I think fifth is a fold, though. If you are ahead, it's not by much. You're probably behind, and you may well be crushed. I presume that you made this raise in the hopes that the other guy would fold, but I think that's a lot to ask for.
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  #17  
Old 12-19-2005, 10:03 PM
blumpkin22 blumpkin22 is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

Mike will not get people to stop playing ABC poker because it is too easy to beat small games playing ABC.

But as you move up in limits and play in tougher games, plays like this one are important to add to one's arsenal. Otherwise, you will constantly wonder why people are always folding when you have the nuts.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2005, 10:12 PM
lstream lstream is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

Not sure what I think yet, but hopefully he doesn't hit a five in the next two streets. If it doesn't then maybe you have a shot at convincing him you are rolled. In a short handed game like this I would pop you back on fourth if I had the aces, so I don't think he has them.

I have playing on line for about year so now, and I definitely think there is a place for naked aggression at times. Otherwise, you are just too predictable. You have to break the "rules" sometime. Stuff like this has to keep even solid opponents off balance, which will pay off later. Off balance = mistakes. The trick is to not go overboard, and get people calling you at the wrong times. If part of the play here is for the meta game, then keep blasting I say. If you ease up even a little, many players will sense weakness and come after you hard. I wouldn't feel the same way if you were a newbie, as opposed to a solid stud player with a lot of experience under your belt.
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  #19  
Old 12-19-2005, 10:28 PM
benwood benwood is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

3rd:You're a LAG.

4th:Nope.You're a maniac.

(Since I don't know you I guess I should let you know that I'm just kidding.)
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2005, 11:41 PM
MichaelOar MichaelOar is offline
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Default Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive

1. This is a small game, and in my experience you don't need to make plays like this to win in this particular game.
2. This "play" just doesn't seem very sound, and I don't understand the reasoning behind it.

Michael
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