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#21
06-17-2005, 09:01 PM
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Re: Smoke Screens (Wynn 5/10)
Thats a weird play. I can't think of any reasonably played hand that the bb could have, so I'm just going to have to go out on a limb and say he's a fish. Other than that, I think the bb made two pair on the turn. That's the only thing i can come up with. If he made a set he needed to bet the turn hard to shut out everyone else. I think the button was on the flush draw, or mid to high pair and the ace pissed him off. And you have a flush. ace high
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#22
06-17-2005, 09:51 PM
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Results and some thoughts
Well, I usually lead flop here. Strassa pretty much gives my rationale for that. Here I didn't do that. Was hoping to take one off and also to mix up my play a bit because I lead that flop 99% of the time. When the flop action gets back around to me and I call, ML4L knows I have monster/draw. That's too bad, but I'm looking for bigger fish to fry (AKA the button). Plus, in all the years ML4L and I have played together, I can count on one hand the number of times we've stacked each other off. It's just the way our playing styles mix, I guess. So, if I get nutty, he ain't paying me off anyways.
So the turn comes off and I lead. This does two things for me: 1) Read Turnip's post. I want to take the play away from the button. By leading, I can win the pot here, or on river when I follow through. Maybe he has a big hand like 2-pair and I can blast him off it on river. Whatever happens I have the lead and can apply some pressure to weakish button. 2) Tries to sell to ML4L that I have a hand so that he can safely muck. Or just confuse him a little bit. Whatever. Well, both call and on the river I get lucky. ML4L checks, presumably to check-fold, as Turnip wrote. I ain't stacking him off or even getting paid a large bet (again, because of prior history) if he somehow did have a super-draw that connected. And I don't want to let button off the hook if he had a draw that hit or an already made hand. So I'm all in and hoping button has enough hand to call me, which is pretty likely given the action thus far. Both the button and ML4L folded. Button muttered something about having two pair. Oh well.
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#24
06-17-2005, 11:04 PM
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Re: Results and some thoughts
did Mike name his hand? because he can reasonably have a few, in particular suited Ax clubs and AK-AJ - remember this was live not online, the button is live and deep, and he could well have pegged Ocho on a draw on the turn. or a missfire with two pair and a bad read. or weaker diamonds if Ocho gave his betting away on the river and Mike sneaked out. but most likely it was an ace +/- the clubs.
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#25
06-17-2005, 11:44 PM
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Re: Results and some thoughts
Matt, I don't understand exactly what you're saying. Perhaps it's a reading comprehension problem. I'll try and work through sentence by sentence.
PS- I recall you guaranteed some months ago on this forum that one of the Raleigh boys was going to win a wsop bracelet this year. Well played. You are a man of your word. [ QUOTE ] did Mike name his hand? because he can reasonably have a few, in particular suited Ax clubs and AK-AJ [/ QUOTE ] No, he didn't. Those hands do compose a fair majority of his hand range. In addition, I would throw in 45 club/diamond. Not much else. [ QUOTE ] remember this was live not online, the button is live and deep, and he could well have pegged Ocho on a draw on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] By "he," do you mean button or ML4L? I'll assume ML4L because button was live. So yeah, I figure ML4L pretty much knew what I had on the flop, the turn bet was in part to throw a little confusion in and maybe he mucks an ace. He still knows it's fairly likely I'm drawing. [ QUOTE ] or a missfire with two pair and a bad read. [/ QUOTE ] Do you mean him or me? Who might've mis-fired? Who had bad read? [ QUOTE ] or weaker diamonds if Ocho gave his betting away on the river and Mike sneaked out. [/ QUOTE ] Could ML4L have diamonds? I did pretty much give away the fact that I nutted on river, but it was unlikely that he pays off a big bet to me anyways with any flush other than nuts in this 3-way. I was gunning for button in this pot, and head-up against ML4L I certainly play the river differently. [ QUOTE ] but most likely it was an ace +/- the clubs. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I thought so too. Though his flop card correction post makes me believe it was 45 diamond or club. Probably clubs, because he would have bragged to me that he layed down diamonds after I later told him I had nuts.
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#26
06-19-2005, 12:40 AM
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I Held...
Hey all,
Well, everyone swung and missed on my hand. But, y'all never had a chance... For once in my life, I made a better read than The Ocho. When button bet the flop, he had a big hand. Just one of those things you can tell in a live game... I thought he had a set; maybe two pair. So, I decided to take one off with my 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], because I was getting button's stack if I hit my gutshot. The guy was one of those who would be so concerned with "protecting his hand" if the turn was not a diamond that he would bet big, probably another overbet, and pot-stick himself. Plus, I might be able to sell the diamonds since I had been kinda snug postflop that session, and I had backdoor clubs. Kinda a thin call, but I knew my read was right as to his hand, and I thought the guy was a prick, so I wanted to bust him... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Anyway, I did not figure The Ocho would call, since he would bet ANY piece of that flop 100% of the time. Make that 99.9% of the time after this hand... On the turn, I picked up my draw, but I don't know if I would have been able to call if I wasn't closing the action. I had no idea what The Ocho had, so I wasn't putting in $400+ to have to fold to a check-raise. But, fortunately, The Ocho pulled that weird stop-and-go, both allowing me to close the action AND get a good price on my clean 10 outs. My read on the button was now two pair (he mumbled something about The Ocho having AA as he called). My read on The Ocho was that he might have a big hand or might just be messing around. But, again, I was getting 4-1 and still thought the button would pay me if the river was not a diamond. Easy call. Bluffing the river didn't cross my mind, although maybe it should have. I was just too baffled by The Ocho's play to make a stab at it. Once he overbet, I knew he had the nut flush and was trying to stack the button. He's lucky that I wasn't on diamonds, because I would have mucked my flush. So, again, there would be no way to really guess my hand without knowing my read on the button... As to The Ocho's play, I would probably have led the flop, although his stop and go was OK, I guess. Certainly confused the button and I (and might have gotten him to the river cheaper). The river, however, is bad. I think that a bet of about $400 would be perfect. It looks like trip aces making a blocking bet, so button would probably raise his flush if he had one (he didn't come all that way to call when he made his hand). But, if button didn't have a flush, he would pay off with his two pair, and I might have paid off with a second-best hand too. So, he wins more when button doesn't have a flush, but the same amount when button does have a flush, since the button would push. Thanks for the replies. Mike
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#27
06-19-2005, 01:06 AM
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Re: I Held...
Yeah, I like your modest river bet idea much much better than my all-in. Even without your read. I really shat the bed here. I think 450 would have been perfect.
How the hell I missed what you saw in button is beyond me. I must have been staring at a cocktail waitress or something. Blech. [ QUOTE ] [turn bet] might have gotten him to the river cheaper [/ QUOTE ] Oh yeah, this saved me about 150 or so. I guess I subconsciously knew he had 2pair and wanted to freeze him from shutting me out of the pot. Yeah. I did. Really. This hand gets uglier for me everytime I think about it.
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