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#14
12-20-2004, 11:21 PM
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Re: Gamble?
Is this directed at me?
I play the 10/20 at Commerce 5 days a week, come on over. Until you fill up, trips in an unraised pot aren't that great a hand, you should know that. The situation/players here don't change that. 
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#15
12-20-2004, 11:40 PM
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Re: Gamble?
I agree that trips isn't a great hand until you fill up. But that isn't the point. All that matters is whether Ocho has a better hand than his opponents. Trips might not be great, but trips ten kicker is much better than any realistic holding for the other two players in the pot. Kx with a worse kicker is possible, and KJ KQ AK or JJ are all very unlikely given the loose preflop tendency of the players. Ideally in such a game Ocho would be able to wait around until he gets a house against these guys, but the answer to playing against reckless players can't possibly be to wait for the nuts. Move in, get called, win the hand, and if you lose then it's just terrible luck. There's 1K in this pot and he's going against essentially random hands-what more could Ocho be waiting for?
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#16
12-20-2004, 11:43 PM
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Re: Gamble?
Ocho,
What did these guys look like? I've played that 5-5 game and there're about 4 or 5 different guys that show up every other month or so and get involved in $6k pots or so with like Kx vs A3 on a K 5 3 board and other insanity. If it's any one of them then a push is mandatory.
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#17
12-21-2004, 01:26 AM
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Re: Gamble?
i'd have done nearly the same. after your call it's a $1520 pot and you'll have $2,000 behind. just take the money. all in is fine. if they are also calling stations i might raise $500 or $1,000 instead. $500 if i can read my way out of trouble; $1,000 if i can't. if they're superbluffers and you can read them you can call for the turn equity. but you better be paying attention. most players who bet $500 into $20 pots without the nuts are easy to read though.
keep in mind your opponents (especially the second one) must be willing to routinely put in $500 with gutshots or worse for screwing around to be potentially correct. otherwise you should raise big. matt
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#18
12-21-2004, 07:40 AM
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Re: Gamble?
I'd have to say no gamble here. if these guys raise liberally preflop, then the fact that neither didn't means one of them probably has a real hand aa, qq, jj or ak and the other is on a super draw aq of hearts or 10,Q of hearts. ya know, raise with nothing and be sneaky with good cards. i'm thinking if this is all i have to play with i wait for a better spot, or just call and see if that slows the action on the turn if it is a blank . i'm thinking that you were either beat by a made hand or outdrawn. The fact that the second player thought for a few seconds before smooth calling is a bad sign. This is if these guys are as bad/maniac as you say they are.
interested to hear the results, gummy d p.s. i don't play in games this deep so what do i know.
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#19
12-21-2004, 08:56 AM
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Re: Gamble?
In a game where there are 2 maniacs and is somewhat loose aggressive, you pretty much are peddling the nuts which is close to what you have given your description of the players. A push on the flop is correct.
Larwence
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#20
12-21-2004, 11:06 AM
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Results
Don't want to cut off discussion but may not be able to get back online for a couple of days so here are my results and brief/incomplete thoughts:
As for being beat, there are really only two hands I'm afraid of from these guys KQ and KJ. AK, JJ are definite raising hands. Deception was not in either's game. KQ probably would have been a raise for these guys, but KJ is fairly likely to be limpable. That being said, any K on this board would seem like the nuts to these guys, and they would have limped with any king. Thus, I'm way more likely to be up a weaker king than KQ/KJ. Against any other players, even one of the many mediocre ones in this game, I am folding KT, but it was just too much hand here to fold. OK, so I'm not folding... what then? #1 was a betting maniac, and #2 was a maniac-calling-station (if there is such a thing). I don't feel like getting cute, and figure I'm getting called anyways by both if one has draw and other has K, so I move in. Results: #1 folds quickly (must've had a jack). #2 calls with K8. Turn T, River T. Chop it up.
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