Preflop LAGishness

[Doctor Teller]

Turnip's answer was my second guess, because you can't assume the players are all reasonable [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If turnip's answer isn't what Ray is looking for, then I've got to believe Ray is thinking on a higher plane than all of us.

[Matt Flynn]

hey ray welcome back.

first folding's fine. it's cheap and simple.

raising can win two ways. if the other two guys fold, you get 3:1 on your money against a steaming all-in player. good situation. sometimes you like it even more if they call. unless they've misplayed their hands (or perhaps slowplayed aces if the stack sizes aren't big), postflop they typically have to hit big or end up check-folding, giving you a nice side pot. there can also be considerable value in showing down A8s after reraising with it.

yeah you can call too. particularly if the stacks were deep and the opponents loose you can argue for calling. you give up some potential for the main pot because of the all-in player, but you get superposition much like turnip described. in turnip's games there are a lot of preflop calling stations with medium stacks who will (mistakenly) play postflop as if there were no all-in player. in those games, you don't get much postflop value from the all-in player and so wouldn't call much.

matt

[Matt Flynn]

"If turnip's answer isn't what Ray is looking for, then I've got to believe Ray is thinking on a higher plane than all of us."

my guess is a cessna and a piper cub, unless ray's got his thousand hours and graduated to jets. beats my minivan, that's for sure.

[Doctor Teller]

yuk yuk yuk yuk [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[vulturesrow]

Well if you do raise, and showdown the hand, it might contribute to a loose table image? Since you said it isnt a math thingy, this is what I thought of.

[The Ocho]

This hand discussion was more interesting than I anticpated, thanks to all who responded.

Well, you all know that I raised. As I expected/hoped, both the limpers folded and I was left heads up against the all-in player.

He turned over AK. Luckily, I turned a flush and won the pot.

Winning only added more to my already LAGgy image, which I actually was on this particular night. They really were letting me run over this game. I had the throttle open all night and nobody saw fit to do anything about it so I kept the pedal down.

Results notwithstanding, after reading all your thoughts, I really do like calling here. The callers both have good stacks and it'd be worth the risk of taking a flop against them. I tried to win a smallish pot but gave up the chance of winning a much larger one.

A fantastic consequence of this pot was that the semi-steaming button went into full-on tilt after the hand. Turns out I was a 7-3 dog to win this specific hand, but the value of having this guy hemorraging chips into the game was worth being a 10-1 dog at least. Sometimes it pays to go the extra mile to try and push somebody over the edge.

[Ray Zee]

you got most of it here. you want to play last with a dry side pot. lots of things can happen and all are good for you. they get to let you know what they have and you get to run them off at will. in the rare event of you and one of them making a hand you get all the benefits. no higher plane here.

[Ray Zee]

bottom line is i raise most of the time in these spots as well. too often you run into a small pair or king queen and are big money favorite with the pot. plus it lets those players know that when you are in, pressure is brought to bear. almost all times you will get them out as you suspected and most times you will have somewhat the worst hand but liking the odds you are getting. if someone comes so what. play the pot.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
if someone comes so what. play the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Zee rules.