Another Question For Protestants

[BluffTHIS!]

Choose one of the leaders of the Reformation, in this case I am going to use Calvin, but you can choose any of them you wish, and then put him alongside Thomas Aquinas, who though living several hundred years earlier nonetheless in his writings put forth definitive explanations of catholic doctrine. These two then, Aquinas and Calvin, arrive before God to be judged after their deaths. In your opinion, which of the two outcomes below is most likely? (Note that I am not referring to their eternal judgement but to a judgement on their christian teachings.)

A. God said to one of them "well done good and faithful servant", while saying to the other, "you fool!".

B. God said to both of them, "well done although you both were partly wrong and thus lead some astray in matters of sound doctrine".

If you choose B then also answer the following question: if they were both only partly right then how can that not partially render God's word void, which scripture says cannot happen, if his full divinely revealed truth is not found somewhere 100% correct and entire since it was obviously so during the ministry of Christ? Notice that I am only referring to that truth which has been revealed and not to such as may not have been.

P.S. for kidluckee et.al., I know you think they were both fools but this is a question for protestants.

Bonus Question: Could OT figures and prophets such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah etc. have been saved, and if so by what means since they never could have accepted the gospel before their deaths? Keep in mind what the NT says regarding the possibility of faithfully keeping the old law.

[Bigdaddydvo]

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A. God said to one of them "well done good and faithful servant", while saying to the other, "you fool!".

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This is clearly the case for Calvin. As a caveat, I speculate that the Lord would follow up the "You Fool!" with "I haven't predestined anyone!"

[MaxPowerPoker]

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Choose one of the leaders of the Reformation, in this case I am going to use Calvin, but you can choose any of them you wish, and then put him alongside Thomas Aquinas, who though living several hundred years earlier nonetheless in his writings put forth definitive explanations of catholic doctrine. These two then, Aquinas and Calvin, arrive before God to be judged after their deaths. In your opinion, which of the two outcomes below is most likely? (Note that I am not referring to their eternal judgement but to a judgement on their christian teachings.)

A. God said to one of them "well done good and faithful servant", while saying to the other, "you fool!".

B. God said to both of them, "well done although you both were partly wrong and thus lead some astray in matters of sound doctrine".


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I'll go with B. This would fit exactly with Paul's analogy in 1 Corinthians 3 about the building. Concerning the teachings of Paul and Apollos and any teacher (Aquinas, Calvin...) he has this to say:

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(1Co 3:9 ESV) For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.

(1Co 3:10 ESV) According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it.

(1Co 3:11 ESV) For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

(1Co 3:12 ESV) Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw --

(1Co 3:13 ESV) each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.

(1Co 3:14 ESV) If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.

(1Co 3:15 ESV) If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


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If you choose B then also answer the following question: if they were both only partly right then how can that not partially render God's word void, which scripture says cannot happen,

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Where they were wrong, what they said was not the word of God. If I screw up God's message, it does not mean that his message is not true. This seems pretty basic.

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Bonus Question: Could OT figures and prophets such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah etc. have been saved, and if so by what means since they never could have accepted the gospel before their deaths? Keep in mind what the NT says regarding the possibility of faithfully keeping the old law.

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The book of Hebrews answers this one soundly. Chapter 11 explains exactly how those in the Old Testament were saved...namely, the same way anyone today is. They believe God's promise of the messiah. They walked by faith.

I would suggest reading the 11th chapter of Hebrews for your answer. Here are some verses that explain that those saved in the Old Testament are saved the same way we are, by faith:

(Heb 11:17 ESV) By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,

(Heb 11:20 ESV) By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau.

(Heb 11:21 ESV) By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

Each of these instances has Jesus the messiah as its ultimate object of faith.

[David Sklansky]

"The book of Hebrews answers this one soundly. Chapter 11 explains exactly how those in the Old Testament were saved...namely, the same way anyone today is. They believe God's promise of the messiah. They walked by faith.

I would suggest reading the 11th chapter of Hebrews for your answer. Here are some verses that explain that those saved in the Old Testament are saved the same way we are, by faith:

(Heb 11:17 ESV) By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,

(Heb 11:20 ESV) By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau.

(Heb 11:21 ESV) By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

Each of these instances has Jesus the messiah as its ultimate object of faith."

Posts like this truly sadden me. Its just sickening how many people go to such detail while talking about dice systems.

[MaxPowerPoker]

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Posts like this truly sadden me. Its just sickening how many people go to such detail while talking about dice systems.

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Explain to me how Christianity is a "dice system".

[BluffTHIS!]

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Posts like this truly sadden me. Its just sickening how many people go to such detail while talking about dice systems.

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Explain to me how Christianity is a "dice system".

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Since I am a Catholic I don't think it is overall, but some interpretations of it are, especially when they engage in such contortions to try to prove the doctrines of such denominatins are correct when they are contradictory of each other. This is especially the case when by modifying their views to that of another denomination they could avoid much of that.

[MaxPowerPoker]

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Since I am a Catholic I don't think it is overall, but some interpretations of it are, especially when they engage in such contortions to try to prove the doctrines of such denominatins are correct when they are contradictory of each other. This is especially the case when by modifying their views to that of another denomination they could avoid much of that.

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Be direct. I will not be offended. You think I am contorting the words of scripture to fit my protestant beliefs when if I just accepted the Roman Catholic Church's teaching, such contortions would be unnecessary.

I do not feel I am contorting scripture. Poorly communicating maybe, but not intentionally contorting. I am simply trying to communicate the New Testament's teaching about Old Testament saints. When scripture tells me that Abraham was justified by faith, I believe it. This is not a solely New Testament concept. Genesis says that Abraham was justified by his faith. Habakkuk says that the just shall live by faith. The book of Hebrews goes to great lengths to explain to Jewish believers how all of the law, the sacrificial system and the like all have their end in Christ.

What is the Catholic Church's teacing on how Old Testament saints are saved?

[BluffTHIS!]

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Each of these instances has Jesus the messiah as its ultimate object of faith.

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

I won't comment any further on this because David said it best.

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Each of these instances has Jesus the messiah as its ultimate object of faith.

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

I won't comment any further on this because David said it best.

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The irony in your post very amusing.

[MaxPowerPoker]

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Each of these instances has Jesus the messiah as its ultimate object of faith.

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

I won't comment any further on this because David said it best.

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David didn't say anything. How is that saying it best? Give me a break!