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#1
09-20-2005, 05:43 AM
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2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
props to TT for helping me a bit last time, kiddie wheels are off on this one.
first round, I am BB with 7632. Seemingly good/tight other player opens in ep, mucked to me and I 3bet. He calls. I catch a 5 and bet, he calls and I am pat. Bet/call. draws one. bet and he raises. Soooooooo I wondered what to do here. I have 76532 and have been raised... hand 2. 2 guys to my left are the action in the game. One on left can play very, very well if he wants to. One more over is raising and drawing 3. Folded to tighty to my right who raises, I 3bet on the button with 7432 (the chorus of angels starts about now) CC, CC, raiser calls. 2, 3, 2, my one. I brick, checked to me and I bet. sb raises, bb (donk) 3bets, predraw raiser mucks and I call. SB draws one, BB 2, me one. Dammit I missed bets. Ohhhhh wait I just squeezed a 5. ship it. SB bets, BB calls, I raise, sb 3 bets, BB says "cap it" and 4bets. I make it 5 and he remembers it's a 5 bet cap. sb calls, call. SB is pat, BB draws one, I am pat (duuuuuuuuuuuuur) I get no river calls. 
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#2
09-20-2005, 06:25 AM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
[ QUOTE ]
first round, I am BB with 7632. Seemingly good/tight other player opens in ep, mucked to me and I 3bet. He calls. I catch a 5 and bet, he calls and I am pat. Bet/call. draws one. bet and he raises. Soooooooo I wondered what to do here. I have 76532 and have been raised... [/ QUOTE ] Almost always call. I'm having a hard time coming up with a situation not to call, apart from him having #4. Whether to raise him on the end is a more interesting question. As for hand two, I'm almost always willing to keep putting bets in on the second round with 7432 multiway. I have no idea how you didn't get paid off on the end.
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#3
09-20-2005, 01:10 PM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] first round, I am BB with 7632. Seemingly good/tight other player opens in ep, mucked to me and I 3bet. He calls. I catch a 5 and bet, he calls and I am pat. Bet/call. draws one. bet and he raises. Soooooooo I wondered what to do here. I have 76532 and have been raised... [/ QUOTE ] Almost always call. I'm having a hard time coming up with a situation not to call, apart from him having #4. Whether to raise him on the end is a more interesting question. As for hand two, I'm almost always willing to keep putting bets in on the second round with 7432 multiway. I have no idea how you didn't get paid off on the end. [/ QUOTE ] so #1 isn't that interesting? I didn't think he was going to raise much lighter than a good 8, and those hands should be folding for 3 bets right? The opp in the hand ended up leaning toward v tight beginner strategy so I dunno. I'll let one or two more people chime in before I give results on that. the sb I think reallllllly read hands well fwiw. last hand of the night for him is when he breaks 85432 and hits the case 7 to hit #1 vs another #1. He might have been pat with like an 8 there praying I draw if he stays. I was just worried on hand 2 that if I pumped it that A) my action gets killed when I go pat and 2) the deck may be rather poor in my cards.
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#4
09-20-2005, 01:59 PM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
1) I think a call is best here. Consider it this way, you are good 85% of the time, and the villain just put in that extra raise for you. He did you a favor!
2) I'm thinking a cap is best since the Hero is last to act (nothing like the nuts on the button), and the 4 better was second to last. Imagine if the Hero had to overcall with the nutz on the river? Yuck! U are becoming TD monster Mr. Painter! Since the rest of you don't know, BugStud was playing in a 40/80 mixed games table at the Bellagio. He didn't have TD experience, and we discussed what would happen if I sat in to play his stack for him during those rounds. I'd have to take a part of his action (which I couldn't afford to do, roll isn't big enough for the swings here). Suffice to say he did rather well on his own! See what a good understanding of the fundamental theorem of poker can do for you in this game? Miracles. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] -fixed my own post
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#5
09-21-2005, 05:09 AM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
[ QUOTE ]
so #1 isn't that interesting? I didn't think he was going to raise much lighter than a good 8, and those hands should be folding for 3 bets right? The opp in the hand ended up leaning toward v tight beginner strategy so I dunno. I'll let one or two more people chime in before I give results on that. [/ QUOTE ] A bad 8 with no draw will probably fold to the 3-bet but pay you off on the end; an 8 with a draw will draw when he probably would have stood pat against a call (huge benefit to you); you save a bet against a better 7 if you just call a bet on the end. So obviously a call is better. If you do get bet into on the end, that's where it becomes interesting, and largely a matter of playing the player. You know you both have good hands at this point.
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#6
09-21-2005, 11:07 AM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] so #1 isn't that interesting? I didn't think he was going to raise much lighter than a good 8, and those hands should be folding for 3 bets right? The opp in the hand ended up leaning toward v tight beginner strategy so I dunno. I'll let one or two more people chime in before I give results on that. [/ QUOTE ] A bad 8 with no draw will probably fold to the 3-bet but pay you off on the end; an 8 with a draw will draw when he probably would have stood pat against a call (huge benefit to you); you save a bet against a better 7 if you just call a bet on the end. So obviously a call is better. If you do get bet into on the end, that's where it becomes interesting, and largely a matter of playing the player. You know you both have good hands at this point. [/ QUOTE ] wow I screwed the action one. He raised me on the river and not after the second draw.
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#7
09-21-2005, 01:04 PM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
3 betting with #3 is usually close to automatic for me. You lose to #1 and #2. You beat #4-8 or so. Online, I don't see people folding an 86 very often. If players are regularly laying down smooth 8's, you should be able to pick up a fair amount of pots by bluff raising. You get caught bluff raising once and they'll start paying you off (and if you don't get caught, it's even better).
I have a hard time believing there are a lot of situations where raising is correct and calling a reraise is incorrect. Math wise, you went from being 50 or 66% sure you have the best hand to 1-(1/pot size (in BB)) sure you don't have the best hand. There are situations where you can fold to one more bet on the river, but I don't see how that happens with a smooth 8. I'm interested in any comments. I thought this was an easy raise, but I guess I could see situations with certain opponents where it wouldn't be.
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#8
09-21-2005, 01:23 PM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
[ QUOTE ]
3 betting with #3 is usually close to automatic for me. You lose to #1 and #2. You beat #4-8 or so. Online, I don't see people folding an 86 very often. If players are regularly laying down smooth 8's, you should be able to pick up a fair amount of pots by bluff raising. You get caught bluff raising once and they'll start paying you off (and if you don't get caught, it's even better). I have a hard time believing there are a lot of situations where raising is correct and calling a reraise is incorrect. Math wise, you went from being 50 or 66% sure you have the best hand to 1-(1/pot size (in BB)) sure you don't have the best hand. There are situations where you can fold to one more bet on the river, but I don't see how that happens with a smooth 8. I'm interested in any comments. I thought this was an easy raise, but I guess I could see situations with certain opponents where it wouldn't be. [/ QUOTE ] I dunno it just seemed really close. In any case he had the only 7 I beat and said he's probably not raising an 8, which prompted the whole post I guess.
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#9
09-21-2005, 03:39 PM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
[ QUOTE ]
As for hand two, I'm almost always willing to keep putting bets in on the second round with 7432 multiway. I have no idea how you didn't get paid off on the end. [/ QUOTE ] I'm really new to this game, but with what hand can the sb stay for 4 bets, stay pat, and then not call on the river? I don't understand this. He is hardly trying to get you to break a hand you wanted to 5-bet.
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#10
09-21-2005, 04:09 PM
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Re: 2 (very) live triple draw 2-7 hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] As for hand two, I'm almost always willing to keep putting bets in on the second round with 7432 multiway. I have no idea how you didn't get paid off on the end. [/ QUOTE ] I'm really new to this game, but with what hand can the sb stay for 4 bets, stay pat, and then not call on the river? I don't understand this. He is hardly trying to get you to break a hand you wanted to 5-bet. [/ QUOTE ] The idea is that the raiser is out of position and puts in a lot of bets hoping to get the player who acts last to see him stand pat and then break because they figure they are beaten. After they both stand pat, the out of position player realizes that he almost certainly does not have the best hand and can fold safely. Still, I really, really doubt it's a good idea to put in the 5th bet hoping the other person isn't going to stand pat (they obviously like their hand enough to 4-bet).
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