My preflop "grey areas"

[og5]

Hey guys, I have been following the SSH tight charts (Someone made a great excel chart) pretty strictly for my preflop game. I do deviate a little, here’s some areas I think may be less than ideal:

-Open raise KJo and higher in MP, even though I’m almost certain a passive in LP or the blinds will call. (So little chance of a blind steal)

-Fold any PP up to 77 if it’s been folded to me regardless of position. 99 I will open raise in MP and TT in EP.

-I almost never play little broadways (JTo-KTo, QJo) unless I’m in LP and then if there are at least 2 callers.

-Cold call with KQs, AQs-ATs, AQo and 99-JJ in any position.

-Small suited connectors I play rarely. I don’t see many spots to play them well (unraised pot with 3+ callers in LP) JTs I will likely limp with just 2.

-Limp A7s+ from MP if there is at least 1 other caller. Suited kings I generally do not play.

Any spots that can use improvement? I’m trying to raise my VPIP, it’s at about 15%. In most situations I will tend to fold borderline hands (KTo, 88, A7s) if there is only 1 other person in the pot, should I play these hands more? (and possibly raise them) I'm also going to limp all pocket pairs from EP, hopefully that will help a little.

Thanks

[scotty34]

-Open raising KJo in MP may not always win the blinds for you, but if the loose LP's will call all the time anyways, KJo likely has them beat. With good post-flop play, this becomes profitable

-In MP2 and later, I will open raise 66+. I am beginning to open raise 99 from UTG

-If there are no callers, and you are in LP with KTo, you should probably raise. I am less likely to play unsuited broadways in LP with more limpers

-Never make a general statement about cold-calling. There are only specific instances where it is a good play. You will learn to judge these for yourself. Ask about your play if necessary.

-You got it for small suited connectors

-If there are no limpers, I will often open raise A5s+ from MP2 and later. I play suited K's in LP if there are a few limpers. I am more inclined to play suited A's from earlier positions than K's and with less limpers.

Those are how I play those types of hands in general. My VP$IP is 18 and my PFR is 8.4.

[Shillx]

Cold call with KQs, AQs-ATs, AQo and 99-JJ in any position.

No offence but blanket statements like this are not the way to maximize your earn. Some examples:

You Say - Folding PP up to 77 regardless of position is like really bad.

Meh you should be limping these pairs up front (UTG and UTG+1). You should also be open raising or isolation raising with some of these hands from MP and LP. What you have to understand that while on paper K9o v 77 is roughly a coin flip, the pair of sevens is a big favorite if the hand doesn't goto showdown. So if a loose player limps you put the screws to him when he doesn't flop a pair. Since he is a 2:1 dog to do so, you are in a good spot to take down lots of pots on the flop and turn.

You Say - Coldcall JJ in any position.

This is a very costly mistake (you should be re-popping jacks). If the pot is multiway, it is a .5 SB mistake or more.

You Say - JTs I will likely limp with just 2 [limpers].

You should be raising this hand from the CO or button after two loose limpers. You should be doing LOTS of raising with suited connectors in position. After 5 limpers you can make a nice value raise with a hand like 97s from the CO. Having said that, you have to be very careful playing them from up front as you will often times find yourself playing in a shorthanded (sometimes raised) pot out of position. You must know the table very well to limp a hand like 87s UTG.

Brad

Edit - All suited kings are +EV when played correctly. This means knowing when to keep top pair kings and when to fold top pair kings. Suited queens are money down to about Q5s. Suited jacks are only good to J8s or maybe J7s if you play really well. What you have to understand is that the rake is so high that you need to squeze EV out of every possible situation that you can. Not limping a hand like K6s after four limpers might be a .06 SB mistake (just an example) but these situations come up all the time so over the course of thousands of deals you are really missing out.

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
After 5 limpers you can make a nice value raise with a hand like 97s from the CO

[/ QUOTE ]
You'd raise in this spot with a one gap suited connector?

[scotty34]

Only if you know how to fold it, and don't play it stupid. If you flop a straight draw or a flush draw, this pays off huge. You will even have odds to chase a gutshot because the pot is so large now. An added benefit is your straight draw is very well disguised, and if you happen to flop two pair or trips, it is also very well disguised. I used to see people make this play and think something along the lines of "there's one for the buddy list," but now I make sure to look at it situationally, as there is times when it is profitable.

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
After 5 limpers you can make a nice value raise with a hand like 97s from the CO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Advise me. I would often limp after five limpers in this spot with this hand, although sometimes I would fold too. But raising with it? How do you play the flop if you spike hit a pair but no draw? If you completely whiff? It seems so unnatural to me to check/fold a flop after raising preflop.

[kapw7]

Do you play microlimits? Then you miss a lot of profitable opportunities by not playing more hands. For example suited connectors and any PP can make a big profit against loose callers, so you need to play them more. Also add some variance in the staring hands you play because you will be easy to read and lose a lot of money. I play generally loose PF but when a VPIP 15 raises then I can easily fold AJ etc.
I don't understand why you follow the tight guidelines. Just find a looser table.

[og5]

[ QUOTE ]
Also add some variance in the staring hands you play because you will be easy to read and lose a lot of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes this is my problem, even at the lowest limits people respect my betting/raising enough to give me little action.

Thanks for all the helpful advice. Some of the hands you guys play are surprising. Raise 66 from MP? Suited Jacks? value raise 97s? I thought these were all trash -EV hands. I don't see Q8s making money unless it hits the flop extremely hard. I mean you could complete your Q flush only to loose to a K flush from a passive who's afraid of an A flush. I do have to loosen up somewhere though so I guess I'll find out how they play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Messy Harry]

Sorry to hijack, but do you have a link to the Excel chart? I've been looking for an alternative to the way the charts are organized in the book.

Thanks.

[og5]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you play microlimits? Then you miss a lot of profitable opportunities by not playing more hands. For example suited connectors and any PP can make a big profit against loose callers, so you need to play them more. Also add some variance in the staring hands you play because you will be easy to read and lose a lot of money. I play generally loose PF but when a VPIP 15 raises then I can easily fold AJ etc.
I don't understand why you follow the tight guidelines. Just find a looser table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well SSH says to follow the tight charts for games averaging 3-5 callers and follow the loose charts for games with 6-8 callers. I have seen "family pots" at party but they aren't regular so I follow the 3-5 caller guidelines (not any more though apparently [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Here's the excel spreedsheet for both charts:

http://public.mlease.mailbolt.com/Oh..._SSH_Chart.pdf