OK grunch..this is proper aggresive??

benkath1 · #1 04-04-2005, 01:32 PM

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

River: (10.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.70 BB

Should I have taken free card on turn? If I missed my hand I think I fold to a river bet anyway.

Let me have it!

Ben

toss · #2 04-04-2005, 01:34 PM

Take the free card if you're going to raise that flop.

einbert · #3 04-04-2005, 01:46 PM

PF: Good.

Flop: I think this is a very nice raise. Good chance of buying the button and/or a free card.

Turn: Gotta take the free card you paid so much for (opened yourself up to an awful three-bet).

River: Standard.

Your only mistake was betting the turn, but it was a pretty big mistake.

Jimbobobb · #4 04-04-2005, 01:48 PM

Flop is a raise or fold situation. Personally I like the fold, but with a backdoor flush, a gutshot, and an overcard, I'm sure peeling one off can't be too wrong if at all. So raise for your free card. You got two callers, so unless you think they're both folding, which is highly unlikely, just check the turn. River seems standard.

jookiebrown · #5 04-04-2005, 01:53 PM

for what it's worth I take the free card. You aren't getting rid of them both with a turn bet.

With your turn bet you got two more big bets plus if a blank falls on the river a bet may get rid of them both...doubtful but possible

milesdyson · #6 04-04-2005, 01:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop is a raise or fold situation. Personally I like the fold, but with a backdoor flush, a gutshot, and an overcard, I'm sure peeling one off can't be too wrong if at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it really isn't. Folding for one bet here is terrible. You have an overcard, a gutshot, and a backdoor nut flush draw. If you discount your overcard and bdfd, you still have the odds to make this call.

I don't like raising this flop either. UTG's bet into a preflop raiser means he might have something, and you're getting 3-bet and bet into on the turn too often, imo, to make this play worthwhile. Everyone else, though, is right by saying if you do choose to raise this flop you HAVE to check through on the turn.

GrunchCan · #7 04-04-2005, 01:58 PM

Sorry, I was looking the other way.

[ QUOTE ]
PF: Good.

Flop: I think this is a very nice raise. Good chance of buying the button and/or a free card.

Turn: Gotta take the free card you paid so much for (opened yourself up to an awful three-bet).

River: Standard.

Your only mistake was betting the turn, but it was a pretty big mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Einbert's got it. I agree 100%.

To those who say the flop is raise or fold, I disagree. Its raise or call, with raise giving some turn benefits. Hero has 4 outs to the nuts, and is getting plentiful odds to call such a bet. Folding would be a catastrophe.

bottomset · #8 04-04-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop is a raise or fold situation. Personally I like the fold, but with a backdoor flush, a gutshot, and an overcard, I'm sure peeling one off can't be too wrong if at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it really isn't. Folding for one bet here is terrible. You have an overcard, a gutshot, and a backdoor nut flush draw. If you discount your overcard and bdfd, you still have the odds to make this call.

I don't like raising this flop either. UTG's bet into a preflop raiser means he might have something, and you're getting 3-bet and bet into on the turn too often, imo, to make this play worthwhile. Everyone else, though, is right by saying if you do choose to raise this flop you HAVE to check through on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll 1up you on the flop play, even if you ignore the overcard, bdfd you still easily call this flop bet getting 11.4/1 on a rainbow board

I'm not sure which is better calling or raising here, since you have the backdoor draw and potential A outs, i think the raise is better, as you don't hate a 3bet as much as you would if you only had the gutshot

but please check the turn, you ain't taking it down on the spot

GrunchCan · #9 04-04-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like raising this flop either. UTG's bet into a preflop raiser means he might have something, and you're getting 3-bet and bet into on the turn too often, imo, to make this play worthwhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just did this in my head, but I think the free card play only has to work 1:2 to be 0EV. It's a pretty scary board to try it, but I just might. Either way is close.

milesdyson · #10 04-04-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop is a raise or fold situation. Personally I like the fold, but with a backdoor flush, a gutshot, and an overcard, I'm sure peeling one off can't be too wrong if at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it really isn't. Folding for one bet here is terrible. You have an overcard, a gutshot, and a backdoor nut flush draw. If you discount your overcard and bdfd, you still have the odds to make this call.

I don't like raising this flop either. UTG's bet into a preflop raiser means he might have something, and you're getting 3-bet and bet into on the turn too often, imo, to make this play worthwhile. Everyone else, though, is right by saying if you do choose to raise this flop you HAVE to check through on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll 1up you on the flop play, even if you ignore the overcard, bdfd you still easily call this flop bet getting 11.4/1 on a rainbow board

I'm not sure which is better calling or raising here, since you have the backdoor draw and potential A outs, i think the raise is better, as you don't hate a 3bet as much as you would if you only had the gutshot

but please check the turn, you ain't taking it down on the spot

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I meant about the overcard and bdfd - discount completely.