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#1
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Party 2-4. I have AJs in the SB and two limp to me. I raise, bb folds, limpers call.
3 to the flop for 6.5sb Flop comes: Q93 rainbow I bet, one call, one fold. We go to the turn with 4bb in the pot. Turn comes (A) Q93. I bet, limper raises I call. 8 bb in pot, river comes (5)AQ93 I check, limper bets, I call, he shows ATo, and MHIG. Now this guy if he's observant at all (or if he uses PT) must see I'm not loose/maniacal. So when I call his turn raise, it's time to take the free card on the river IMHO. This is the flip side of Bob T's earlier post about valuebetting MORE. Against solid players who are showing resistance, it can be wise to value bet less. Here, there are darn few hands I can call with here that don't beat his. And many more that do -- especially given my preflop raise. Or am I too chicken with my checkin'? |
#2
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you played the hand fine
don't worry about how other players play, most of em are donks |
#3
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[ QUOTE ]
Against solid players who are showing resistance, it can be wise to value bet less...Or am I too chicken with my checkin'? [/ QUOTE ] No, I think this makes a lot of sense. I usually try to base my value betting on player reads when possible. If my opponent is loose, I'll value bet a lot more often than I will against someone who's tight and usually showing down good hands. |
#4
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Wasn't asking about my play -- was noting that there's a time when value betting the river is a -EV proposition against solid players who have shown resistance, whereas it would be profitable against loose/calling stations.
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#5
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Not that I'd play ATo this way if I were your opponent, but I'd value-bet the river without giving it a second thought, even against an opponent I recognized to be fairly good.
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#6
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[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't asking about my play -- was noting that there's a time when value betting the river is a -EV proposition against solid players who have shown resistance, whereas it would be profitable against loose/calling stations. [/ QUOTE ] I assume this was directed at Klepton? I wasn't commenting on the actual hand. |
#7
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"Turn comes (A) Q93. I bet, limper raises I call."
When I, a TAG, call the turn c/r on this board after raising preflop from the SB with two limpers in and betting the flop, what can I possibly have that AT beats? KK? If you value bet this river against me with top pair, so/so kicker in this situation, Nate, I believe you are costing yourself money. |
#8
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I see your point here. You do have to be more careful in value betting against good players.
Example: Two players limp, and a good player in MP also limps. Folded to you in the BB. You check with K9o Flop is Ks 4d 9s You bet, two limpers call, and the good player calls. Turn is 3c You bet, two folds, and the good player calls. River is 8h What would he possibly call with and lose? Do we check/call or check/fold? What if the river had been the Qs? Sorry if this is a bad example ; I'm just trying to get at the general strategy. |
#9
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I agree with you here, but you're making an incorrect assumption that your opponent is a thinking player who uses stuff like PT and reads forum posts about value betting. Furthermore while this is a mistake, this isn't even close to being as bad as a lot of the plays that I have seen in the Party 2/4. In this situation peoplepay off with hands like KQ and KK all the time because they are bad and/or becuase people bluff a lot.
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#10
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Did you intend to give the BB in this example top two pair? Because top two pair is like, pretty much the nuts on this river given the action so far.
If you had K7 and you knew he was a very good player, check call the river and try to get value from his busted draw. Probably just bet against unknowns who call down with any 9 and pocket pairs. |
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