Hand Reading

It's obviously very important to put your opponents on a range of hands. However, when you're playing in a shorthanded (6-max) game of NL holdem and your 5 opponents are seeing the flop at a 55%-85% rate and going to showdown at a 35%-50% rate how do you do that? When you're finally in a hand for a raise and 4 people call your raise cold how do you even begin to put your opponents on a hand? How do you proceed in that type of situation. Do you just close your eyes and shove your chips in on the flop when you flop 2 pair or better? TPTK or better?

What are the stakes and the dynamics of the table? Is everyone limping? How often are there PF raises...and at what multiple of the BB do raises take?

If everyone is limping, the SB and BB could be on any two cards.

What happens post flop? Passive checking? Or a lot of action?

Without knowing more, I am guessing this table is playing loose and passive. The collective hand ranges could then constitute neary every possibility...especially all suited hands, all Ace-anything, middle to high o.s. connectors.

If your preflop raises with premium hands do not reduce the field, try raising more. I'd avoid getting fancy by slowplaying or check raising. Play premium hands for full value. Maybe play Ax suited more often...as well as other hands that fair well in multi-way pots.

a mix of Loose Aggressive and Loose Passive. The Loose Aggressive players will literally raise with anything pre-flop and the loose passive players will call with any 2 cards. After the flop the turn will eliminate players only if they hit NO piece of the flop and there are no gutshots or backdoors. If any of these players have a piece or an outside shot they're calling off their stack in the case of the passive players...which is great. However, the LAG's can and will raise with anything or nothing...and will keeo firing.

What are the stakes? And how would you describe your style of play?

Agaisnt a very loose table, with a mixture of aggressive and passives, the conventional strategy is to play tigher, play position and play aggressively--check raise the LAGs and come over the top of the calling stations when you put them on draws. TPTK will likely take many pots and two pair many more, but no matter how tight you play against such competition, expect wide swings in your chip stack.

I'm not really sure what the stakes and/or my style of play has to do with how to play in the specific situation that I described.

But, for your info I'm TAG 18.5/6.7/2.1

The game I described was NL $200 buy, blinds of $1/2

Unless you're trying to say that players at NL $200 are not as good as those at NL $2000, or better than those at nl$25, please explain how the info that I provided changes the optimal way to play in a game that I previously described. The way the game is being played should dictate how you play, not the amount of the blinds or how you generally play in an average situation. Or am I missing something big here?
Thanks

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The game I described was NL $200 buy, blinds of $1/2

Unless you're trying to say that players at NL $200 are not as good as those at NL $2000, or better than those at nl$25, please explain how the info that I provided changes the optimal way to play in a game that I previously described.

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I am in no way trying to suggest that players at smaller stakes are intrinsically better or worse than players at the higher levels. It has been my experience, that, in general, there is much looser play at the micro-limits and tighter play at the higher stakes.

If you see no difference between calling a $5 raise with a gut-shot draw versus a $500 raise in a similar situation, then you are a better poker player than me--seriously.

And you are correct; optimal play is optimal play.

I think you completely missed the point. Thanks anyway for your attempt at helping.

No-one talked about $5 or $500 raises with gutshots, etc. that's elementary. A $500 raise into a $10K pot would justify a call. Conversely a $5 raise into a $5 pot wouldn't if we're talking about a gutshot.

We're talking about a TONE that a specific game has taken and how to best proceed. At this point we all know about pot odds and implied odds. That's not at all what this post is talking about. I'll repeat what I said earlier. I'm talking about Premium Powerful Draws, TPTK, 2 pair vs. extremely large overbets (whatever the pot size or blind size) into a crowded field when the entire field is seeing on average 55%+ of all flops and at least 2-3 players are going to showdown every hand. I'm also talking about what to do with those same hands in the same circumstances when you're first to act.

These types of games can be maddening, however, they can also be extremely profitable. Start out by playing the tightest game of your life, and pay attention. Pay attention to how the various players play their hands. You'll find that some of them know a thing or two, but not much. Then, you need to figure out what size pre-flop raise gets them out. Normally, in a tight game, a pre-flop raise of 3-4 times the big blinds drives out the weak holdings. I can remember a 1-2 NL game where UTG would raise pre-flop to $15 and it was still a family pot. Most people will not respect your pre-flop raises, they don't pay attention to whether or not you're playing solid. Just be super-patient, wait for monster, and you'll get paid off. Play a lot of hands that do well multi-way since you'll be able to get into a lot of multi-way pots cheaply. They can be frustrating games, but if you're patient, you'll be a happy man later. Expect to be sucked-out on. DO NOT TRY TO BLUFF. There are too many calling stations.

Thanks for the advice.
I know what you're saying about waiting for a monster. However, what would you do in the case where you play AKO or AQo and you flop TPTK. Also what about the situation where you play KQs and flop an open ended straight/flush draw and what about just a nut flush draw?
How would you play those scenarios when 1st to act and after a big bet in front of you with the rest of the table to act. Thanks again Bear and am looking forward to more of your comments.

Well, the questions you pose are exactly why you're paying attention to the other players, what do they do? If you're facing a bet and you figure you're hand to be the best, reraise. If the players play the way you describe, when you look down and see AK or even AQ, you're hand figures to be the best, so, raise pre-flop whatever it takes to narrow the field. You have to experiment to find that magic number. As far as if you have an up and down straight draw or nut flush draw, call the bet. Why? Because there is sure to be somebody behind you who will call as well and that builds the pot. If you semi-bluff, you may win the pot right there, which is fine, but if you just call, the pot figures to get bigger with the additional caller(s). For example, you have A7 of spades, everyone limps. Fine, that's what you want, money in the pot. Say you're in middle position. Flop comes with two spades, first player raises it up. One way to play it is to reraise, if you're called, it's cool, you have outs. Maybe you're Ace is good, but what you really want is to make you're flush. Or, you call, to entice other callers. Some numbers for you. Say blinds are 1-2 dollars, six guys limp in pre-flop, that's twelve bucks in the pot. Flop comes, first guy fires ten, now the pot has 22 dollars. You reraise, everyone folds, you win 22 bucks. Or, you call, one guy behind you calls, now there is 52 bucks in the pot and you have a 37% chance of making the nut flush. Say you make the flush on the turn, first guy checks, you check, last guy takes a stab at the pot, you pop him, you win a more money. By just calling, you're keeping more players in the hand, more opportunities to make money. You have disguised the strength of your hand which can entice bluffers. You'll really do well if the spade makes someone a set or a straight, much like when you fill up on a card that completes someones flush. If I'm not mistaken, the idea of just calling to keep others in the pot is discussed in Hold 'Em for Advanced Players. Albeit a limit book, it is a remarkable text.
I hate games like this because your stack will go up and down and up and down. It's unnerving, but if you play it right, you can leave with a lot of cash. Also, it's extremely difficult to put people on hands in games like this.
I often follow the principle of trying to win a lot of small pots, however, the only way you'll profit in a game like the one you describe is by taking down large pots. When you have big hands like AA, KK, QQ, AK you need to chase guys out pre-flop. Don't worry, this isn't too bad because these types of games feature a lot of idiots that play any ace, so, when you have AK and you pair the ace, chances are you'll get paid. Be careful, since they play any ace, they may make two pair with those harmless-looking low cards. Also, when you raise pre-flop with jacks, tens, nines and an ace flops, you must proceed with caution. If you flop a set and there is an ace out there, this is another good opportunity to make money, there is sure to be someone in the pot playing a baby ace.
If you have anymore specific questions, feel free to ask. I'm not the best, but I'm glad to share with you what I know.