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#11
11-14-2005, 03:31 AM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
[ QUOTE ]
It was a move to end the hand quickly not extract value. The hand is too weak for value. [/ QUOTE ] why not just always do this with a random hand then? 
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#12
11-14-2005, 03:43 AM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
[ QUOTE ]
why not just always do this with a random hand then? [/ QUOTE ] because sometimes they will call on a draw then when they hit it you can curse and blame them for a bad beat cant call bad beat when you dont have a pair to start with! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#14
11-14-2005, 01:17 PM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
Here is my reasoning. He said the first caller was a smart tight player. Now lets try to place him on a hand.
1. He could be slow playing a big pair AA KK QQ. 2. He's on a draw of some sort. (staright or flush) 3. He could have a weaker holding like Q 10 or J 10 10 9 suited or not. 4. He could be holding a mid pair like JJ 1010 99 88. 5. He could have a low pair 77's and lower. Slowplaying the high pairs with a flush draw on the board seems wrong. The draws seem somewhat correct with his betting pattern. These are possible holdings with his betting and maybe he flopped two pair with 10 9 suited and is now slowplaying. Still a long shot with those draws out there. The mid pair I would be worried about because of the possible set but, he did not raise preflop which seems weird with just callers in front of him. A low pair worries me as well. He just called preflop so 33 would be a consistant holding with his bets having trip 3's but yet again the draws are out there. I would put him on a draw. Once again, bet out big and end it now. I was playing a table while writing this so I might have some errors, sorry.
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#15
11-14-2005, 01:32 PM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
WOW.
You do know that a good player is capable of moving in here with a flush draw right? Your analysis could not be farther from correct. If you do overbet weak holdings like this, it needs to be against the correct type of player, with a ton of folding equity, or will call with a worse hand. I highly doubt any1 calls with a worse hand here, especially a 2.5x pot bet. On the other hand a smart player will push u off ur hand very easily with a str8 or flush draw, and u cannot call. NLHE is all about mistakes. Your bet does not allow opponents to make mistakes, it only allows you to make a mistake. Check folding flop is the best way to play this hand, you might be making a small mistake, but it prevents you from making a bigger mistake on later streets. If he moves in on the turn are u gonna call? If he pops it back huge are u gonna call? If he calls what do u do on blank river? Check/fold? Or another hugggee bet? All sarcasm aside, you need to go to SSNL and post there, you have very flawed reasoning.
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#16
11-14-2005, 04:21 PM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
Serious question, TBG, do you really c/f this flop? I dont like leading out, but I dont necessarily just check/fold...
It's a limped pot, your hand has decent equity, no one says you cant play a turn or anything. I probably check/call, depending on who bets (what relative position) and how much. If there is a caller to me I probably drop, but routinely throwing this away is avoiding a possible +EV scenario, no?
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#17
11-14-2005, 04:53 PM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
[ QUOTE ]
Serious question, TBG, do you really c/f this flop? I dont like leading out, but I dont necessarily just check/fold... It's a limped pot, your hand has decent equity, no one says you cant play a turn or anything. I probably check/call, depending on who bets (what relative position) and how much. If there is a caller to me I probably drop, but routinely throwing this away is avoiding a possible +EV scenario, no? [/ QUOTE ] To me, the flop had the type of texture that was likely to missed most players, I like to stab at these type of pots when I have a piece. This will then help my action when I am very strong. The first call did not indicate a draw to me, the player was smart and not getting odds to draw and he is probably pretty sure I would not pay him off. On reflection given the players involved I'm glad I led out on the flop and checked the turn and river. I gave free cards, but I didn't waste money when their was a good chance I was beat.
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#18
11-14-2005, 05:00 PM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
"so let me get this straight...you advocate a bet that drives out anything he can extract value from...and a call/raise from everything he gets crushed by?"
I'm not going to defend this joker (his advice is asinine wrt this hand), but situations arise with some frequency, especially on the turn when out of position, where this is exactly the kind of bet you want to make. Hand protection and avoiding a river situation where your opponent has a significant edge can be more important than further value extraction and loss minimization.
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#19
11-14-2005, 05:17 PM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
In a capped buy in game, yes - Unless the bet comes from the last guy to act.
You give up value to the guy who limped 88 in MP and thinks it might be good, but he can have the pot if he wants it.
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#20
11-15-2005, 12:08 AM
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Re: Lead the turn with weak kicker?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post3939471
you just posted this [ QUOTE ] If the table consists of loose calling station types, I will overbet bluff them right from the get-go. [/ QUOTE ] then this [ QUOTE ] If you do overbet weak holdings like this, it needs to be against the correct type of player, [/ QUOTE ] im not sure what you want.
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