20/40 Live hand, big pot

DeathDonkey · #1 11-19-2005, 06:21 AM

20/40 live awesome game, everyone seems to be lagging it up at this point so there is alot of action. MP is a young "live pro" he claims, who has been getting way out of line preflop, and I have been 3 betting him a bit light as a result many many times and winning. I am two to his left and have had a lot of playable hands when he has been raising, he is pretty sick of it, thinks I am out to get him, and thinks I'm a lucky LAG (he has that part right) basically.

Anyway he openraises and I 3 bet with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], folded to an awful awful SB who calls. SB is a weird guy, he is super loose passive preflop and then a weird random LAG postflop who rarely folds and semibluffs and is tricky in all the wrong spots.

MP caps it (this means he has a real hand instead of say 74o which I caught him isolation raising with earlier). We both call.

Flop is K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] SB checks, MP bets, I raise, SB coldcalls, MP 3 bets, we both call.

Turn is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] SB checks, MP bets, I raise again, SB pauses and then coldcalls, MP angrily calls.

River is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] checked around.

I think all the postflop streets are debateable really.

Thanks for any comments,
DeathDonkey

toss · #2 11-19-2005, 08:25 AM

I can understand the flop raise, but not the turn. At this point its likely MP has a better hand than you and is not gonna fold.

#3 11-19-2005, 10:30 AM

i think the logic behind it is that by raising the turn and checking behind the river, you charge the small blind an extra BB to draw to the flush while costing yourself nothing since you're likely calling down either way. it is better than just calling down because you still have outs to improve if you're behind MP. so while generally the extra BB goes to MP, you'll occasionally suck out and win an extra BB that you wouldn't have won if you just called down while putting in the same # of bets.

toss · #4 11-19-2005, 11:13 AM

I don't really like calling either. What hand is MP betting with here that we beat? I can only think of QQ or JJ or AQ with a spade.

Edit: Hmmm maybe I just convinced myself that DD's play is best.

#5 11-19-2005, 12:06 PM

I like the turn raise if you plan to check the river.
It charges the sb when he is drawing and the so called pro may actually have a spade draw since he can play so aggro.

NH

#6 11-19-2005, 12:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like calling either. What hand is MP betting with here that we beat? I can only think of QQ or JJ or AQ with a spade.

Edit: Hmmm maybe I just convinced myself that DD's play is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

getting 12:1 with tpgk, i think you have to at least call here. as you said, we could be ahead of mp. and even though we're probably behind him, (assuming the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is dirty) we have 4 outs against AA and 2 outs against AK. if you're gonna call, then i think raising is better.

pretty sure you're folding to a 3bet, ddonkey?

imported_stealthcow · #7 11-19-2005, 12:48 PM

in my opinion, you played this hand awesome

sy_or_bust · #8 11-19-2005, 02:45 PM

nice hand.

DeathDonkey · #9 11-19-2005, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
pretty sure you're folding to a 3bet

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny, as I raised the turn I was thinking to myself "I have no idea what to do if I am 3 bet here". But I think I probably would have folded.

-DeathDonkey

McGahee · #10 11-19-2005, 07:12 PM

I understand wanting to charge SB for his flush draw - but still - you should not be raising the turn if you don't think you have MP beat >50% of the time, right? If you do think you have him beat more often than not, then the river's an easy bet, right? I don't really understand the free showdown play here unless you're pretty sure MP also has a flush draw and I don't see why you'd think that.