50NL 6max: SB JJ to raise and minreraise

AthenianStranger · #1 11-06-2005, 05:45 PM

Villain 1 is LAG (79/26/3.5), Villain2 is relatively unknown but tight (19/6/1.5 38 hands).

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP :(Villain 1)/ ($26.06)
CO :(Villain 2)/ ($49.75)
Button ($98.53)
Hero ($93.43)
BB ($59.63)
UTG ($38.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, MP [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]Villain 1)/ raises to $2, CO [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]Villain 2)/ raises to $3.5, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls $3.25, 1 fold, MP (Villain 1)/ calls $1.50.

Flop: ($11) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero... ?

How is the call preflop?

What are the different advantages/disadvantages of:
1) betting out the pot
2) betting out 1/2 pot or greater
3) betting less than 1/2 the pot
4) check/minraising
5) checkraising large
6) check/calling and leading out turn less than J
7) check/calling and check/raising turn

I have always had trouble with JJ from the blinds. What is my line here?

Spekkio · #2 11-06-2005, 05:48 PM

What are the reads on the two villains? If I just sat down at a table and see a raise and re-raise pre-flop, I muck JJ from the blinds. I might then find out that the two players are donks with AJ vs KQ, but then I'll have plenty of other opportunities to make money off of them.

Now you're stuck though, and without more information about the bettors I'd probably lead out for 2/3 the pot with the intention to fold to a raise.

AthenianStranger · #3 11-06-2005, 06:07 PM

Folding JJ for 7 big blinds is just too weak, IMO. I do have a read, and that is that Villain 1 raises with a lot of garbage. I don't know what Villain 2 would minreraise with, however.

I like the 2/3 pot bet.

Spekkio · #4 11-06-2005, 06:17 PM

Well, you have to include the reads/information in your post. Just posting this hand and saying "what do I do" leaves a lot of information out. Your read on your opponents are critical in this situation. Most people will only re-raise pre-flop with QQ-AA, except the idiots. But like I said before, you'll have plenty of opportunities to get your money in against the idiot. If you call here in the BB, you should be looking to hit a set, but only if you know that the raiser is going to over-play his big pocket pair.

Malachii · #5 11-06-2005, 06:19 PM

Hmm. Check folding isn't awful. Check/calling leading turn is my standard line but it's a bit awkward with these stacks. This is the problem with saying you're calling "for set value" OOP.

AthenianStranger · #6 11-06-2005, 06:25 PM

Villain 2's reraise is what makes this difficult, right? But don't a lot of people do this do a LAG who is raising 30% of his hands to see how much he really likes it this time? Villain 2 could have two overcards or even a mid PP.

AthenianStranger · #7 11-06-2005, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. Check folding isn't awful. Check/calling leading turn is my standard line but it's a bit awkward with these stacks. This is the problem with saying you're calling "for set value" OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean that check/calling and leading turn is awkward with these stacks? Because the stacks are small? They aren't that small. I'm assuming I'm more likely to battle with Vil. 2 than the other.

Also, I'm not sure why I am calling for set value. Sure Vil. 2 reraised PF, but it was a minimum raise. I think I probably have the best hand with JJ, but I could be way behind.

Malachii · #8 11-06-2005, 06:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean that check/calling and leading turn is awkward with these stacks? Because the stacks are small? They aren't that small. I'm assuming I'm more likely to battle with Vil. 2 than the other.

[/ QUOTE ]
The pot is $11. He's going to bet $~8-11. You're going to call. The pot will then be between 27 and $33. Kind of hard to bet and then fold to a raise, right?
[ QUOTE ]
I think I probably have the best hand with JJ, but I could be way behind.

[/ QUOTE ]Right, this is your dilemna. A pair of jacks is a very, very easy hand to go broke with OOP when the pot has been raised and reraised preflop.

FWIW, after thinking this over I would simply lead out for $11, folding to a raise from the tight player, calling a push from the short stack obviously.

Godfather80 · #9 11-06-2005, 06:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain 1 is LAG (79/26/3.5), Villain2 is relatively unknown but tight (19/6/1.5 38 hands).

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP :(Villain 1)/ ($26.06)
CO :(Villain 2)/ ($49.75)
Button ($98.53)
Hero ($93.43)
BB ($59.63)
UTG ($38.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, MP [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]Villain 1)/ raises to $2, CO [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]Villain 2)/ raises to $3.5, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls $3.25, 1 fold, MP (Villain 1)/ calls $1.50.

Flop: ($11) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero... ?

How is the call preflop?

What are the different advantages/disadvantages of:
1) betting out the pot
2) betting out 1/2 pot or greater
3) betting less than 1/2 the pot
4) check/minraising
5) checkraising large
6) check/calling and leading out turn less than J
7) check/calling and check/raising turn

I have always had trouble with JJ from the blinds. What is my line here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop: I'm probably calling along with you. There's no reason to raise here and folding is a little too tight.
Flop: Check/fold. This is a prime example of an opportunity for you to win a small pot or lose a big one. You are OOP against a tight reraiser preflop = bad news when you don't hit the flop.