Hellmuth dogging Raymer

[Sobolous]

Check out his quote at the end of the article...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8567118/

[MoreWineII]

I pretty much ignore anything that comes out of Hellmuth's mouth.

[mlagoo]

Here is the quote, for those too lazy to read the whole article (I know you're out there =):

“She’ll probably show up at more poker tournaments in the future with mixed results. Greg Raymer has been on tour now for a whole year and he’s only made one or two final tables the whole year. Then he comes back with a lot of chips in this thing. That’s impressive, but kind of weird. Luck is a big factor.”

-- Phil Hellmuth

Pretty fking petty of Phil there, and I'm generally not a Hellmuth detractor (at least -- I generally think his rants/tableside manner are fairly harmless). He's been gradually descending into this characiture (sp) of himself, and its really unfortunate. It's like he's playing the Phil Hellmuth he sees on TV.

I think the reason you don't see Greg at a ton of final tables is because of the way he plays -- willing to take big risks early if he thinks he's ahead. The difference between Phil and Greg is that, if Greg makes a final table, it's typically going to be with one of the biggest, if not the biggest, stacks in play. Which obviously worked to his advantage last year.

Anyway, pretty low snipe there by Mr. Hellmuth. Whatever.

[fnurt]

But luck IS a big factor. He didn't say Raymer was a bad player or anything. In fact, luck is the exact reason why a great player only makes the final table every now and then.

I am surprised this quote, out of all the stupid things Hellmuth says, caught anyone's attention.

[mlagoo]

I understand that he didn't say anything explicitly in the sentence. But it seemed implied, at least to me. "Greg is doing good in the main event. It's wierd. Luck is a big factor."

It's possible that it's just a coincedence that he phrased it in this way, but it just seems like a bit of a jealous snipe to me. I could be reading too much into it.

I want to reiterate though, that I read it that way, and I'm generally someone who sticks up for Phil Hellmuth. So I didn't have any preconceptions.

[fnurt]

I took it to mean that it's weird how someone only makes one or two final tables in a year, and then they do great at the WSOP, of all tournaments. I mean, you could be right, but I don't see it as a huge deal.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
I took it to mean that it's weird how someone only makes one or two final tables in a year, and then they do great at the WSOP, of all tournaments. I mean, you could be right, but I don't see it as a huge deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sting of it is in the comparison to Tiffany Williamson. Since he just slagged her poker playing (and probably rightly so) to then essentially put Raymer in the same boat is quite a slight. I think many people still don't realize how good Raymer actually is.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
. Then he comes back with a lot of chips in this thing. That’s impressive, but kind of weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raymer has been playing a lot of Ring, too.

Also, I've noticed that Raymer tends to make dubious plays early to try to get a big stack, and often the stacks aren't deep enough for it to work. Note that Raymer was down as low as 3k in the Main Event this year.

Here is an example

[ohkanada]

I assume you are talking about the 64o hand? The only questionable play might be the open-raise after 4 folders. But post-flop he played it fine.

Ken

[Scooterdoo]

His play in that hand would not be considered too 'dubious' or wild by many/most. Sure he had a very week hand preflop, but he was in the cu and it was checked to him and he's trying to create action -- either take down the blinds or get some callers and perhaps hit his flop with his small suited cards and possibly catch someone with a high pair who cannot put him on those cards. The flop gives him a straight draw so he's feeling good and he easily has the price to call the small bet. His turn call is a close decision, but his stack is deep enough relative to the bet and the implied odds if he hits are definitely worth taking a shot. Again, I don't see this play as anything too crazy.