97s 3handed w/ some passives (10/20)

[oreogod]

Entity and Tstone were arguing this hand of mine in IRC, so I thought Id post it. (they were arguing whether or not a flop cap was good. entity was pro cap, tstone was not.)

Pacific 10/20. 40 hands played and both of these guys are passive, openlimping with good and bad hands, rarely using pressure plays with draws. Stats are pretty unreliable here. These guys were not the best or brightess but would also crawl into their shell pretty easy sometime. Example...I have mid pair, I bet, they raise. chk/Bet/call turn. BD flush hits they check behind. (happened twice that I recall)

So passive, weak players.

3handed. Im in sb w/ 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Button limps, I complete, BB raps.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet out, <font color="red">BB raises</font>, <font color="red">Button 3bets</font>. I briefly think about capping but cold call instead. (if I did cap my intention is to check turn UI)

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I donk. Good?

[stigmata]

[ QUOTE ]
I have mid pair, I bet, they raise. chk/Bet/call turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to nit-pick, I know this wasn't the point of the post, and I don't know the rest of this hand, but shouldn't we be folding mid-pairs on the turn against aggression from the described players?

As for the hand, I can see a case for capping the flop. However, our equity may not be as as good as it might be because of the flop 3-bet -- some of our 2-pair/trip outs could be tainted, we may even be missing a flush out. I guess it's pretty close between calling/capping.

Against the described scaredy-cats, I don't see any other way to play the turn. It would be awful to see the turn checked through. It probably gains the same number of bets as successfully check-raising the button anyhow.

[oreogod]

that was an example, not a specific hand. But I belive I picked up a gutter on the turn that made it worthwhile to call for. This is pacific so I dont have the HH and its a pain to try and find it, imo anyway.

(on the flop in the example hand I had put him on a top pair decent-ish kicker or raggety two pair and called flop, picked up a gutter and called river with intention to c/f UI. I dont get many ppl fast playing sets on me, so while its possible he could have had a hand like that, I was less likely to put him on it.)

[Entity]

It seemed to me that you were guessing that they wouldn't fastplay a draw or a set, but would fastplay top pair or top two here. It also didn't sound from your description that BB would be likely to raise-fold. It just seemed to me that your equity against that sort of handrange would make capping fine, as long as you're willing to check the turn UI.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: 26.0748 % 22.59% 03.49% { T2s+, ATo, KTo, QTo, JTo }
Hand 2: 26.0966 % 22.61% 03.49% { T2s+, ATo, KTo, QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 47.8286 % 47.74% 00.09% { 9d7d }

[/ QUOTE ]

Rob

[wheeler]

I like capping the flop because you're not losing much if you're behind and it may let you see the river cheaper against the typical passive pacific player.

I think donking the turn is absolutely correct in this game.

[wheeler]

[ QUOTE ]
This is pacific so I dont have the HH and its a pain to try and find it, imo anyway.


[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.pokertracker.com/handgrabber.html

It's so worth it.

[stigmata]

Yeah sorry, that was completely nit-picking. Looks like I picked up bad habits from these forums, ahem.

I really think it's close between capping/calling the flop. I do, however, like wheeler's point about possibly seeing the river cheap if you cap it.

Depends. If he's likely to check behind this is a good. If he's not going to check behind this is poor (except for when you're setting up a 3-bet). Totally depends on your opinion. He seems to like his hand, though.

I also like a flop cap. You're showing an immediate profit, so why not? You didn't increase your implied on the turn by just calling and then donking out.

[oreogod]

Me and stone talked about this further, but one thing I did forget that Bryce mentoned was the fact that if I cap and check they could very well check behind on the turn which would be fantastic.

So say I have 9 flush outs and say even just 2 outs to the 7 (so 11 outs), I have equity, mixed with the possiblitie of a turn check through...that makes for a very appealing scenario.

Just for the record when playing the hand I was pretty torn on what do do (as I was thinking about equity) and could have gone either or, had I thought of the check through idea, I probably would have capped.

It also does a much better job of disguising your hand, which could induce more action from strong holdings. The way you played it you've basically said: "Hello, my name is Flushy McFlusherson, nice to flush you."