Are Party 15/30 players truly as retarded as they seem?

[teddyFBI]

This is a dead-serious question, from a career 3/6 & 5/10 player, because I keep hearing that the play is just as bad at higher limits, but still haven't been comfortable enough to move up, especially since I always figured competition would be much stiffer higher up.

I've been poking my head into 15/30 games lately just to check out the style of play, and more than half of the games I watch are beyond absurd. Players are not only playing trash hands (i.e. T2o, 93o, etc. etc.), but raising preflop, and then playing them post-flop as though they were the nuts, even when the board misses them entirely.

And play on the river seems most wild of all; Players raise and re-raise even when it should be 100% obvious that they have no chance of winning the hand, i.e. watched several hands where board was double-paired, and with one bettor then a raiser, a player casually throws in a $90 re-raise with a low flush (only to get re-raised and shown the nuts of course).

So what is it with play at 15/30. I understand aggressive games, but these are seeminly non-sensical...is it a hyper-aggressive 'strategy' that actually has a place at higher-limits, or is it just trust-fund babies and investment bankers who like sitting at the highest limit tables they can??

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[mcozzy1]

I can't speak of 15/30 games, but let me ask you the reverse. I play low limit games (1/2, 2/4). People always say the play is basically the same at the 3/6 and 5/10 games. Is this true? Every time I peek in on a 5/10, the play is extremely tight-aggressive.

[MicroBob]

I think you answered your own question.
Yes, the play is more aggressive....but the guys re-raising with T2o and playing 75% of their hands are obviously beatable.

Watch these guys long enough and you'll see them pull enough Gus Hansen moves to bust themselves out.

there are quite a few good players...2+2 multi-tabling sharks and the like...but they can be VERY profitable if you can handle the emotional roller-coaster ride involved with such large swings.

Couple weeks ago I was sitting to the left of a 93/10 (VP/R) guy. He was literally playing almost EVERY hand. Would cap PF with T2o, etc.
Some wild swings when he would bust my isolation raises back to back by catching runner-runner...but by the end of it all I had booked a dandy little profit.
When the luck is again you though it can really be tough on your emotions though. And the play is a little bit trickier in general because there are enough strong players there where straight-forward play isn't going to be qutie enough.


I'm not the expert though....I've only started jumping into thr 15/30 and I've had enough bad strings in that time to provoke stepping down again for a day or two.

Keep observing the tables, do some data-mining, make sure you have the bankroll, and give it a shot if you think you're ready.
Reading up in the mid-high stakes forum can be helpful also. Some good players post in there (as well as some not-so-good ones...and NO, I'm not only referring to myself).

[Bytestream]

[ QUOTE ]
Check out my drop-out-of-Ivy-League-law-school-to-play-poker-professionally BLOG at www.zbasic.com/pokerblog.html

[/ QUOTE ]

At work with a lot of downtime during this holiday season, so I checked out your blog...

I think what youre doing is foolish. Well, if you're thinking "who the f*ck is this guy to tell me that..." I hear you, but you went public with this and Im sure you would like any critisism, postiive or negative. So heres my 2 cents, take if for what its worth....

First off, you once thought you were going to make over 100k a year playing 3/6 poker. Even if you could grind out 3BB/hr it would take you 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year of playing and you would still be under $80k BEFORE taxes. The picture you paint in your blog or "regular" work looks like a vacation in the carribean in comparisson to those hours.

Times are great for poker right now. But that will change. Whether it be legislation, bots or maybe the game simply goes out of style like stonewashed jeans, spandex or disco music (of course there will always be poker, but not so many fish) When the pond inevitably does start drying out, the affiliate business won't be earning scratch, and your going to have to be pretty darn special to be grinding out more then 1.5 BB at 3/6 consistently. The higher limits are going to be even tougher. This boom is not only attracting many fish, its breeding a number of solid players as well. You will regret day in and day out not taking that $2500 week summer job that could one day lead to partnership and millions of dollars.

Your biggest mistake however is going to law school in the first place. You obviously have a great amount of disdain for the profession and the work or a regular job. There has to be some other field that interests you though. Poker can't be the only thing you could possibly enjoy doing for the rest of your life. Maybe youre just be hard on the grind of work as a lawyer to assuage your decision to give it up? In that case perhaps you should go to school and practice gambling law. There is certaintly going to be a lot of progress to be made in that area in the next few years. Combining your passions would make "work" a little more enjoyable.

Finish law school or some other degree, get a great job and retire wealthy before your fifty and then follow the WPT around the globe playing poker in dozens of exotic locations for fun and sport. The game is even more enjoyable when you don't have to count on the money to survive.

[MicroBob]

haven't read his blog but I'm going to comment anyway (because that's what I do).


1. some people start off in law-school and then grow to hate it. This happened with a good friend of mine who went back to school at 30 or so....and is just now completing law-school at 34. the only reason he finished was because he had already started it and he really was at a point where he felt he couldn't back out. He called it 4 of the most unsatisfying educational/professional years of his life (or something like that).

Different strokes for different folks. If teddy started law-school and later decided it sucked then that's his decision.


2.
You could win $2k/wk (same as $100k/yr) by playing 44.5 hours per week of 3/6 on 6-tables winning 2BB/100.

certainly would be difficult...but not entirely impossible.
62.5 hds/hr per table.
375 hds/hr if playing 6-tables.
This is $45/hr (at $0.12/hd....or 2BB/100).

At 44.4 hours/wk you would have $2k/wk.


This would be quite the grind obviously....but it IS possible.
But, anyone who plays this many hands at this win-rate should have the bankroll and skills required to take some shots at 5/10 and perhaps eventually at 15/30 (which it appears Teddy is thinking about doing).


side-note - When I was playing 2/4 and 3/6 everyday I would see a player named TeddyKGB or Teddy_KGB, not sure which (assuming this is the same person) on several of my tables. He is NOT someone that I looked forward to having on my tables.

[bicyclekick]

Many are, yes. They are super duper retarded. Thing is, if you don't play well enough the good players will take back the money you got from the retarded players.

Finding the right games is important.

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
2.
You could win $2k/wk (same as $100k/yr) by playing 44.5 hours per week of 3/6 on 6-tables winning 2BB/100.

certainly would be difficult...but not entirely impossible.
62.5 hds/hr per table.
375 hds/hr if playing 6-tables.
This is $45/hr (at $0.12/hd....or 2BB/100).

At 44.4 hours/wk you would have $2k/wk.


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget rakeback - I can count on $2,000 - $2,500 / month in rakeback. That's a pretty frightening implication: I pay $100,000 to $120,000 per year in RAKE ALONE for the privilege of playing poker with Party.

[MicroBob]

Whoops...the guy I was thinking of was TEDDY_KGB I think.
But I also think I have played with TEDDY_FBI before.
It's all so confusing.

[Bytestream]

No doubt that law school (or any school) can suck if its not for you. And its a fact that most academically bright young people are urged by counselors, parents etc.. to become "doctors" or "lawyers" because they are "smart" when they may have no interest in those areas at all..

You could describe many mathematical cases for making 2k a week. However playing 365 hand an hour 45 hours a week every week works out on paper but how about in real life. I can watch movies, talk to my fiance, and surf the web while two tabling without a hitch. At three tables, my concentratin on either starts to wane in and out. I rarely four table, because when I do, thats all Im doing, I might as well be on the clock for some job because its got 100% of my attention. 6 tables, 8 hours of that a day and I might get sick of poker real soon, and I've been in love with the game for almost a decade.

I know you play full time for a living, and without asking you to divulge personal info if you dont want, how close are those numbers to your reality?

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
Whoops...the guy I was thinking of was TEDDY_KGB I think.
But I also think I have played with TEDDY_FBI before.
It's all so confusing.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not Teddy_KGB on party, but I do know that player; plays a lot and above average.