how long to slowplay monster hi/no low draw?

I'm on campus now, but this hand from last night has been stuck in my head. I do not have the HH, but here's the recount.

PokerStars $0.50/$1.00 PLO8

No stacks larger than $120..

Hero had just lost the previous pot, and has ~$80 in front (didn't have a chance to load up to $100)
CO has ~$90 CO was a very tight/weak (except every A2) player preflop, and post flop only put it in with a made hand.

Hero is BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

5 limpers, SB completes, Hero (BB) checks.

flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Checks around.

Turn: 2x

SB checks, Hero bets $2, folds around to the CO who raises $5 to $7. Folds back to Hero who reraises $5 to $12. CO calls.

River: 2x

Hero bets small in relation to the pot again (this time ~$10), CO pots, Hero reraises all in (about $2 over the pot bet), CO calls.

Now the outcome of this hand was rather interesting, but was not the question that I have about this hand.

I know I have a strangle hold on the pot, but the turn brought a nice low draw to the board, and it is heads up. I have no chance at a low, and would really hate to have this pot split, and only make a buck or so off the limps minus rake.

My first thought on his reriase was A22wheelcard? A235? A255? He was playing damn near only A2.

Which play has more value to this hand...

The turn reraise of a sure call amount, and then fire another "I hope to get raised" bet on the river? (playing the 80/20 edge here [assuming underboat with a low draw], and just hoping a low doesnt hit?)

or

Going ahead and potting the reraise, but have a very great chance of the CO folding right there? With that sort of board, why in the world would just a low draw with maybe an underboat call a large bet here? What are his folding percentages? Remember he did reraise the turn, but did not re-reraise...


How long do you slow play a one way hi enormous monster hand on a low draw board, when heads up?


Forgive me if this question is trivial, Ive only made the switch from PLHE to PLO8 over the course of the past few months, and reading every thread on here has really helped my game termendously. I had played positive LO8 for about 2 years when breaking from HE, but was a huge donk at PLO8 untill really reading through so many of the threads here. Thank you all very much.

[FeliciaLee]

This is pretty subjective based on opponents, which you seem to already know. This happened to me just the night before last at Stars, when I was wedged in between two very aggressive players who were doing a lot of raising and reraising. I basically play the hand the way I feel will suck the most out of them, while not scaring them off of the hand.

A runner-runner low draw obviously changes the outlook somewhat on the turn. If you feel that an opponent may actually go for something like a RR low, you have to adjust your betting to make him pay the maximum to get there. He may feel that he has a "decent" high, so he has to see the river, who knows. I have seen players play so badly that it is baffling. These are the same type players who try to convince me that T5 is the best hand in HE, because it can make "all of the straights." I just sit at the table, smiling and nodding at their obviously superior play.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DyessMan89]

Im not a big fan of checking the flop, even though you have quads. Yes, you do have the high wrapped up 99% of the time, but I dont like checking and keeping A2/A3 combos in there. Its not that hard for them to runner-runner you, and take away 1/2 of what is yours. With 7 players in the pot, I dont think you should be too worried about scaring everyone away. Im assuimg these players are rather loose, and not weak-tight. If I had something like A2JJ, then fine, but even with that ... Id still fire a bet on the flop if I think i would get called. Then again, Im usually quite LAG.

In summary, I dont like slowplaying made high hands. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Chamonyx]

Checking the flop from the BB seems like a pretty good way to increase your win on this hand: If you bet out anything, the only hand that might call is 55.

When you bet weak on the turn and it folds round to CO, he can easily put you on a steal attempt and decide to try to push you off it (maybe he has something like A34 clubs as well). Your min-re-raise still looks a bit weak (maybe you have one J but are not yet full) so it is worth his calling.

On the river, you bet what you think he might call and he plays into you, so he must have some great combination of 2's and 5's, but you are golden.

I think the only troubling part of your play was not maxing the raise on the turn: If he calls, then you are probably only going to get 1/2 the pot if his low hits, so you have to charge him the maximum to draw at the low. You really don't mind if he folds here, because that way you get 100% of the pot to date.

[Ribbo]

You have to watch yourself nodding at the table, you will leave the cleaners a horrible job of brushing up all that hair falling out. On another point, I love players who take a loss personally and do the "you me $2000 headsup" routine. As though I'm going to leave my profitable tables to play anyone headsup. Not sure exactly what point they are trying to make is, but it makes no sense. When people do the "i'm better than you I want to play you heads up" routine, I often reply with "i'm better than the other 9 at this table, so i'm going to play all 9 at once, thanks all the same".

Are you retarded. Open-fold on the flop. If you don't see why, stop playing PLO8.

Good luck.

Surely this is a clever aliasing job from a joke stemming from the other forum....

Yeah my gut really said to bet out the flop, but my table image at the time was very tight...

Im pretty sure that that was picked up on by several players at the table. I had not been getting much action, but I had not been getting any hands in the prior hour either.

I think that a $1 min bet is more suspicious than a check however.


I dont like slow playing them either, but in this case, the chance of a RR low, vs a lock high I felt a bit confident about the flop check.


btw, CO held A22Qds

Any other thoughts?

[Wintermute]

[ QUOTE ]
Im not a big fan of checking the flop, even though you have quads. Yes, you do have the high wrapped up 99% of the time, but I dont like checking and keeping A2/A3 combos in there. Its not that hard for them to runner-runner you, and take away 1/2 of what is yours. With 7 players in the pot, I dont think you should be too worried about scaring everyone away. Im assuimg these players are rather loose, and not weak-tight. If I had something like A2JJ, then fine, but even with that ... Id still fire a bet on the flop if I think i would get called. Then again, Im usually quite LAG.

In summary, I dont like slowplaying made high hands. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Emptyshell was telling me that a runner runner low gets there about a quarter of the time. I was surprised it's that high at the time, and this thread jogged my memory to check the numbers for myself. Assuming you don't hold any low cards (except maybe the one that would just pair the board anyway, as in this case):

(7*4/45)*(6*4/44) = 34%,

so a possible low will get there a full third of the time! (Surprised me, maybe others were aware.) I think this is reason enough to lead at the pot frequently, as well as the fact that it might look like a steal attempt to someone holding a "reasonable" chasing hand, like nut flush. Of course, leading at the pot will work even better if you are a more active, LAGish player.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to watch yourself nodding at the table, you will leave the cleaners a horrible job of brushing up all that hair falling out.

[/ QUOTE ]
My hair is finally growing back! It's maybe only about 15% of it's former fullness, but there are some little hairs on my head.