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  #11  
Old 09-21-2005, 12:09 PM
bigt439 bigt439 is offline
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Default Re: Jacks

Wow I'm really surprised with the replies. Hand #1 is a very easy push. I can't believe anyone, let alone several people, said to fold. It would be a terrible fold IMO.

Hand #2 is alot closer and I would go to reads on it. Without reads my default would be to push but I wouldn't love it. The cold caller doesn't really scare me that much, and the slightly above average raise might push me over the edge to pushing, but I'd like reads for sure.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2005, 12:37 PM
kyro kyro is offline
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Default Re: Jacks

I don't like your reply because you have no reasons for disagreeing with anyone. Why would you push hand 2. Try putting them on hands before you get push happy.
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  #13  
Old 09-21-2005, 12:37 PM
tshort tshort is offline
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Default Re: Jacks

I think bigt is right about the first hand. I calculated you should expect to win about t100 pushing. I set UTG calling range at 88+, AJs+, AQ+, KQs. I assumed UTG would call 75% of his original raising hands. I assumed short stack would have 55+, A9s+, AT+, KJ+, QJs.


I think 2nd hand is still a fold ... especially without reads. If either the original raiser or the cold caller has a tight range, pushing would be -EV. At best, I think this is slight +EV. Not worth it without reads.
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  #14  
Old 09-21-2005, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Jacks

I can't honestly say since I dunno how people generally play at PP55s.

1) With no reads, I'd lean towards a push, and a fairly easy one at that. I can't give UTG+1 any credit for his all-in obviously since he's so shortstacked and mostly simply be looking for umbrella cover by the raiser, and I really can't say that I'm in bad shape against UTG either.

2) This hand is read-dependent. With no reads, I'm folding. UTG looks like he has queens, but I honestly don't care about that as much as a cold call for 5 times the big blind from MP. MP is either stupid or has AA-KK-QQ.
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  #15  
Old 09-21-2005, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: sults

Actually, your deduction is exactly why I think it's a fairly easy push for hand #1. If it's a tossup against UTG(which I agree with), then you should push. He will possibly fold. Even if you get called you're very, very likely a coin flip. I don't advocate diving into coin flips, but the fact that you're probably a solid favorite against the shorty adds to your pot odds plus the fact that the other guy may fold.
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  #16  
Old 09-21-2005, 01:48 PM
Irieguy Irieguy is offline
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Default Re: Jacks

Geez, if you aren't insta-folding both of these hands you are leaking worse than if you fail to consider a misclick when somebody min-bets.

Irieguy
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  #17  
Old 09-21-2005, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Jacks

especially minbets on the turn
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  #18  
Old 09-21-2005, 05:03 PM
Taraz Taraz is offline
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Default Re: Jacks

[ QUOTE ]
Geez, if you aren't insta-folding both of these hands you are leaking worse than if you fail to consider a misclick when somebody min-bets.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I knew what this meant. I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not. I'm guaranteed to interpret it the wrong way. I hate JJ by the way.
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  #19  
Old 09-21-2005, 05:09 PM
Taraz Taraz is offline
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Default Re: Jacks

I was going to say to push both of these, but the more I think about it the worse of a play that seems without reads. UTG raises worry me.

In Hand 2 a read would change my play completely though. Has MP cold called raises with subpar hands before? If he has I would probably push and try to squeeze the original raiser out.
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  #20  
Old 09-21-2005, 05:11 PM
Irieguy Irieguy is offline
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Default Re: Jacks

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Geez, if you aren't insta-folding both of these hands you are leaking worse than if you fail to consider a misclick when somebody min-bets.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]


I wish I knew what this meant. I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not. I'm guaranteed to interpret it the wrong way. I hate JJ by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was an allusion to a funny statement by NoahSD: misclick leak

My point is that you should fold those without thinking twice.

Irieguy
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