Two personal beliefs and their consequences - Page 5

#41 12-11-2005, 03:01 AM

My present actions are only partly determined by my past actions. I am a thinking individual so I can separate myself from my past, and also get influenced by outside sources, i.e. other philosophy. Sure, to a degree I am determined, I will admit that. But it's not enough to make me stop and think about it or let it affect my life.

chezlaw · #42 12-11-2005, 03:05 AM

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My present actions are only partly determined by my past actions. I am a thinking individual so I can separate myself from my past, and also get influenced by outside sources, i.e. other philosophy. Sure, to a degree I am determined, I will admit that.

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How have you decided that your present actions are only partly determined? What difference does it make either way?

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But it's not enough to make me stop and think about

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Sounds honest to me, but is that your idea of intellectual dishonesty.

chez

#43 12-11-2005, 03:08 AM

Because if you convince them to be a determinist, it was meant to be. If you don't, it wasn't meant to be. But what if you just slept in that day?

Lestat · #44 12-11-2005, 03:10 AM

Just how literally are you taking this belief?

If someone is 500 lbs. because (among other reasons), they eat a gallon of ice cream per day, are you implying that they CAN'T stop eating ice cream?

If someone doesn't have enough money because they are (among other things), a lazy procrastinator, are you implying they can't change?

Are these people completely disempowered to change their way of thinking? Their views on life, etc? I'm sure I'm missing your point. Otherwise, you're exactly right. What a depressing way to go through life thinking you do not conrol your destiny.

#45 12-11-2005, 03:12 AM

100% literally. Yes, they cannot stop eating ice cream.

There is no logical way to defeat this argument (that I have seen). I will not accept illogical arguments against it.

You see my problem! (I feel guilty telling people about this and I would much rather never have thought of it).

chezlaw · #46 12-11-2005, 03:17 AM

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100% literally. Yes, they cannot stop eating ice cream.

There is no logical way to defeat this argument (that I have seen). I will not accept illogical arguments against it.

You see my problem! (I feel guilty telling people about this and I would much rather never have thought of it).

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I still don't understand you point. If they have no free will they may or may not stop eating ice cream in the future. If they have free will then they may or may not stop eating ice-cream in the future.

In all cases it seems like their choice but may not be. How can you tell the difference?

chez

#47 12-11-2005, 03:20 AM

Maybe you won't accept illogical arguments, but would you accept experiential arguments? Just look around you, there's plenty of reason to think we are not completely determined.

#48 12-11-2005, 03:21 AM

If you have free will you can choose either to stop eating or not stop eating.

If you do not have free will you will either stop eating or not stop eating.

In the first case you can make either one happen. In the second case either one will happen.

Does this help at all in your understanding of how they are different?

#49 12-11-2005, 03:22 AM

You must have no confidence in the concept of willpower. I quit smoking. How do you explain that?

chezlaw · #50 12-11-2005, 03:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you have free will you can choose either to stop eating or not stop eating.

If you do not have free will you will either stop eating or not stop eating.

In the first case you can make either one happen. In the second case either one will happen.

Does this help at all in your understanding of how they are different?

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I understand how they are different. I dont understand how you can tell the difference between them - that's what I'm asking you.

chez