What Was This Fellow 2+2er thinking??????

grandgnu · #1 12-03-2005, 10:10 PM

Situation: I used to host home games, but stopped in September. One of my players bought up some of my supplies and hosted it in the town over today. Just a small group of 6 of us were invited for his first event, but he'll expand it to others in the future.

$50 buy-in and start with 3,000 in chips. I have taken an early chip lead and I'm running over the table. I'm making great reads on my opponents, taking pots away from them, making them think I'm bluffing when I've got the nuts and vice versa.

Early on a player raises on the button with pocket 10's. I'm in the small blind and push with pocket Aces. Unfortunately had I known the BB had pocket Queens, I would've played differently and tried to get them both to come along for the ride. But my push was meant to make them believe I had a hand I didn't want to see a flop with, and the 10's called and I eliminated him.

Anyway, on to the hand in question. 2+2er in my experience is a TAG player who is difficult to get reads on and plays well. I used to be TAG, but have recently switched to LAG and play a lot more tricky and my reads have become quite strong post-flop.

We are now 5-handed and I raise in EP with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Antes are 50 and blinds are 150/300. It's the 2+2ers big blind and he's short-stacked. Folded to him, and he pushes all-in for an additional 850 chips. Here's how it all adds up:

Antes=250
Blinds=450
My Raise=900
His Push: 1,750

TOTAL POT: 3,350

I have to call 850 chips to win 3,350, almost 4 to 1 on my money! I make the obvious call and he flips over 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I guess he was getting desperate, maybe he was thinking that his cards were clean and he could 60/40 against me? He's usually good with the math, so he must've known I couldn't fold getting those odds, and he should've known that his hand would need to catch to beat me.

Whatever the case, the flop was 7/8/9 and he lucked out and his hand held up and he went on to finish 2nd. I'm still beffudled by his play. I'm not sure if he was just hoping to get lucky, or forgot to calculate the odds, but it was certainly a strange play from someone who I used to believe was a stronger player than myself (my game has improved significantly recently, and I believe I've come at least close to being as strong a player as he is, perhaps even surpassing him a bit)

So, what does everyone else think? He can fold and still be short-stacked, but wait for a better spot where maybe he can steal with a push or get heads-up with a better holding. Maybe he figured he could get heads-up with clean outs (not knowing he was dominated by my hand)?

Benoit · #2 12-03-2005, 10:58 PM

Well with the ante, he's getting over 3 to 1 on his money since you only mini-raised and you say you are loose. So against your range of hands, he may have figured he was getting good odds on just calling... But figuring he was pot committed by calling, he just went all-in hoping he had some folding equity if you raised with a junk hand. In the heat of the moment, it's possible.

grandgnu · #3 12-04-2005, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well with the ante, he's getting over 3 to 1 on his money since you only mini-raised and you say you are loose. So against your range of hands, he may have figured he was getting good odds on just calling... But figuring he was pot committed by calling, he just went all-in hoping he had some folding equity if you raised with a junk hand. In the heat of the moment, it's possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh????? I didn't "mini raise" Blinds are 150/300 and I made it 900 to go, 3x the BB. There's ZERO fold equity going for him if he pushes, since I'm getting almost 4 to 1 on my money and I could call that with pocket 10's against pocket Aces (if I knew he had Aces) because the price is right.

jzpiano14 · #4 12-04-2005, 01:53 AM

Probably figured he had two live cards and when u get short stacked sometimes the suited connector start looking good

#5 12-04-2005, 03:36 PM

He probably knew he had to double up soon to have any chance of winning and his hand could at least draw well if he got called.

grandgnu · #6 12-04-2005, 05:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He probably knew he had to double up soon to have any chance of winning and his hand could at least draw well if he got called.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, I figure he was just hoping to get lucky and was desperate, because I don't think he calculated the math there, or he would've known I couldn't fold.

I still believe he's a strong player, is difficult if not impossible to pickup tells from, etc. Although he does have a strong penchant for tilting, he gets quite emotional (and I've been guilty of the same myself in the past).

Then again, my Q/Q busting his short-stacked A/A in the 2+2 event I held at my house might help to contribute to that. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Slow Play Ray · #7 12-05-2005, 11:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Probably figured he had two live cards and when u get short stacked sometimes the suited connector start looking good

[/ QUOTE ]

there's no real mystery about his play, bud...this is a thinly-veiled bad beat post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

grandgnu · #8 12-05-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Probably figured he had two live cards and when u get short stacked sometimes the suited connector start looking good

[/ QUOTE ]

there's no real mystery about his play, bud...this is a thinly-veiled bad beat post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Incorrect my friend, this was a mathematical post and you all failed miserably..........

Here's what was posted:

Antes are 50 and blinds are 150/300. It's the 2+2ers big blind and he's short-stacked. Folded to him, and he pushes all-in for an additional 850 chips. Here's how it all adds up:

Antes=250
Blinds=450
My Raise=900
His Push: 1,750

TOTAL POT: 3,350

I have to call 850 chips to win 3,350, almost 4 to 1 on my money

If you all had done the math, you would see the his push wasn't for 1750, since he actually only had 1450 with which to push (850 over the additional 600 I raised him with). So really, the pot was 3,050, not 3350. I'm disappointed in all of you (or I just wrote this all wrong from the beginning, either way, great odds and I have to call anyway)

Benoit · #9 12-04-2005, 02:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Antes=250
Blinds=450
My Raise=900
His Push: 1,750

[/ QUOTE ]

Woops, I thought you meant his blind was 450, I missed the other part stating his blind was 300...

Yeah like the other poster said, I still think he must have been desperate and he already had 300 and still had to post 150 in the next hand. Either he's not that good and he thought his hand was a gem, or he has a read on you and against your range of hands he is getting enough odds to gamble.

grandgnu · #10 12-04-2005, 02:31 AM

Hmmm.........I think he was just getting desperate. Plus, he didn't announce how much more it was, perhaps he was hoping I'd hear "all-in" and maybe fold before I calculated the pot odds for the call. Ah well, he tried to give me his chips, which would've put me in great shape to continue running over the table and win the whole thing.

Variance is such a *censored* I've been playing such awesome poker lately, and I still get bad beats laid on me (luckily because I'm playing better than my opponents).

Another home game two days previous and a terrible player min-raises UTG, folded to me in the BB with K/5 offsuit and I make the call. I check blind and the flop is 5/6/10 and he bets out 200 chips. I study him and I know he's full of crap and doesn't have a pair or draw, so I come over the top all-in for another 925 chips. He calls me with A/8 sooted (rainbow flop by the way) and the turn is a 7 and the river a 9 and he runner-runners his gutshot to bust me. Ugh. That's poker.

While my results haven't been so great lately, my reads and play have been pretty damn impressive. I've gotta try to keep the ego in check, lest I become another Helmuth.