Global Warming - Where to get info?

[Felix_Nietsche]

To the OP. I highly suggest you ignore Felix Nietsche.
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LOL. I'm glad to see I'm no longer on your 'ignore user' list. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

By the way, will you concede that Michael Mann's failure to include his mathematical 'algorythms' in his infamous hockey stick publication was a MAJOR violation proper scientific research? Surely with your scientific background can not deny that....can you?

[superleeds]

Felix,

you do realise your going to die someday, don't you. What's the point in trying to prolong your life. Why don't you hasten your demise, I mean after all it's gonna happen, right?

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But mankind has a huge ego and many can't except the possibility that we are just spects of dust on the planet earth and at the mercy of mother nature.

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You are correct that many have this inability to see mankind as they really are, but your innane chatterings on this and many other subjects are a help in convincing many.

[mackthefork]

Jesus, that was a little harsh, thank god for the internet eh. If you said that to him IRL he'd probably snap you in two, either that or shoot you. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Regards Mack

[wacki]

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Many argue that a small increase in the world temperature will have beneficial effects on the global economy. These are the issues that need to be explored.

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There are many that say more hurricanes, rising sea levels, and ultra high oil prices are good for the economy too!

Vulturesrow I expect better from you.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Jesus, that was a little harsh, thank god for the internet eh. If you said that to him IRL he'd probably snap you in two, either that or shoot you.
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I don't even know what he is talking about. If you understood his post then kudos to you. I think he was attempting to insult me or wish death upon me. I'm not sure which.

And no I would not shoot someone for saying something like this. I can't take people like this guy seriously. Shooting is reserved for people who would steal my property or try to murder me or my love ones. I'm not as good of shape as I use to so I don't think I could snap him in two. I still remember my jui-jitsu submission holds so I could take him to the ground and make him cry for his "mommy". [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[vulturesrow]

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There are many that say more hurricanes, rising sea levels, and ultra high oil prices are good for the economy too!

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The link to increased hurricane activity is tenuous at best, rising sea levels are obviously bad, and high oil prices are great for spurring exploration of alternate energy sources.

The fact is that real issue here is what Borodog said, and it gets precious little attention from both sides of this debate.

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Vulturesrow I expect better from you.

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How so? I have a very open mind about the whole global warming issue. Ive read quite a bit on it, including just about every link you have ever provided in this forum. But I am not convinced. I'll try to do better for you though Wacki [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Olof]

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There are many that say more hurricanes, rising sea levels, and ultra high oil prices are good for the economy too!

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This might be a stupid question, but wouldn't a warmer climate lead to less energy consumption? It seems like warmer winters in North America, Western Europe and Japan etc would decrease the need for oil.

[Felix_Nietsche]

........millions of years ago there were no thermometers or people to measure the earth’s temperature. So global climate scientists have had to ESTIMATE what the temperatures were using a variety of techniques. There is no way to know how accurate these techniques are. We can’t travel back in time to check the accuracy. If a technique is even 1 degree off, it can trash the research that it is based on.

In Michael Mann’s infamous “hockey stick” research he estimated the temperatures by studying growth rings from trees. Many people question the accuracy of this method and the fact he refuses to release his mathematically algorithms has fueled suspicions that his tree-ring thermometers may not have been very accurate and rather than admit he wasted a lot of time a money he used creative mathematics to get the results he wanted. In the working world, people will sometimes do unethical things to keep their jobs. Salespeople will lie to make a sale, people will blame others for their mistakes, etc… Just because a person has a PhD does not exempt them from human nature.

With regard to CO2 levels, this data was calculated from samples they got from glaciers. Their techniques to get these were quite clever. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

You will find the people that believe mankind is causing the current warming trend can get QUITE EMOTIONAL if you disagree with them. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[wacki]

I'm going to try very hard not to fall in the bottomless pit of fighting you. There is more than enough evidence in the archives that you will grab any piece of trash you can and go to extreme lengths to debunk the idea that humans changing the atmosphere. You are a troll, and one that is getting better and better at trolling the more I debunk your claims.

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With regard to CO2 levels, this data was calculated from samples they got from glaciers. Their techniques to get these were quite clever.

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?? are you saying the airpockets trapped in glaciers aren't any good?

Also, the CO2/temp data is from Ethridge et al. 2001, Keeling and Whorf 2002. The temperature data is from Jones et al. 1998, Peterson and Vose 1997. This graph is pulled from smalley's website. You know this. In the past you have brought up scientists I do not reference and use them to attack me. We've been over this before. You know this graph is not from Michael Mann yet time and time again you bring up his name. I should do an archive search to prove what a troll you are. Although, you have brou

Time is short, and I don't have enough to deal with this thread properly.....

[wacki]

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The real question is, "So what?" The economic costs over the next century, even under the most unlikely and dire scenarios, associated with individuals simply moving as the climate changes is a tiny fraction of the economic cost associated with crippling world economies in some nebulous, poorly understood attempt to reduce emissions.

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Depends on how you look at emissions. For people who don't care large portions of florida may end up underwater one day, the only thing I have to say is look at our energy needs. Look at china, look at the oil supplies. Look at the cost projections. I mean, the cost of ITER, when compared to the entire energy industry is insignificant. That would provide cheap and clean energy within our lifetime. Then there is the arguement that we wouldn't be throwing billions of dollars at the middle east. I'm sure even vulturesrow can agree cutting our need on foreign oil would be massively +EV just for terrorist, economical, and homesland security reasons. Hell the cost of the second Iraq war was an order of magnitude larger than ITER.

Look, I'm not saying that we have to make sacrifices. I'm saying we should think long term, we should think about our kids, and we aren't. The cost of energy issue alone should be more than enough reason to. The energy I'm talking about will be cheap. Once you realize the energy problem, that alone should be enough to convince you. Then you should add in the factors or terrorism, economics of expensive/cheap energy, advantages of extra technology fueling our economy, etc then it becomes a no brainer.

Ugh... I've said all this before dozens of times. Not going to do it again. an endless trap.