poker theory 101 Nl Challenge

[icedevil2002]

blinds are 100 200 you are in the big blind with pocket jacks. you only have 2200 in chips and man in 1st position raises to 1000 and man in the small blinds calls cold you already have 200 in. Now let me let you know that i know both of these people are maniacs and could be holding any 2 cards I am positive I have them beat at best they 2 over cards Ace queen or ace king king quuen.both maniacs have like 6000 chips. what would you do here what i did I called and went all in on the flop when the flp came queen 6 2 all diamonds and me holding the jack of diamonds. I was soon called by both of them one showing ace queen with ace of diamonds and the other showing the ace queen off suit. Now I know that I was close to a 70 15 15 fav. preflop. Should I have folded preflop, went all in, or did exactly what did

[MelchyBeau]

This sounds like a tourney, if it is it changes things drastically and there is not enough information for the good posters (not me) to give you the correct advice.

Melch

[craftyandsly]

While new to poker, whether or not to fold pre-flop would depend on additional circumstances. 1). Is this a tournament? If so, then one may have to seriously consider go all-in. However, let's think about that for a moment.

Since the blinds are $100 and $200, in my opinion - THERE IS STILL TIME - to accumulate chips in your efforts to stay ahead of future blinds.

You didn't mention how many players were at the table. If the table was full, with the information you provided, I would definitely fold the pocket jacks. The raise in the first position of *HALF* your chips is too much of a gamble with a full table. *SOMEONE* has an ace and a king, out there, and possibly pockets, themselves.

Betting almost 50% of your chips, per-flop, would place you remainder of your stack in peril. According to Sklansky and Harrington, this is a no-no in the Big Blind unless you have something better than A-Q.

Now, if there are only 4-5 players at the table, I might seriously consider playing pocket jacks *IF* I could limp-in. But, the fact that the person UTG *RAISED* $1,000 pre-flop (risking the remainder of my stack), I'm pretty certain I would still fold.

Lastly, if *I* was your opponent and saw your stack holding an A and Q, betting $1,000 UTG was a gutsy move if your table was full. According to Harrington and Sklansky, a bet of no more than two-four times the Big Blind would be proper bet.

But, that's gambling. <g>

Craftyandsly

[The_Bends]

If this is a tournament then you need to push preflop. If you genuinely think these players would play any two cards then you're probably up against two overcards (one from each hand) for a coinflip but you're in there to treble up giving you great odds. How much longer can you wait anyway?

Obivously this would also depend on payout and other things.

[oaktoon]

Given your betting position and your assessment of these two players, I think you have to push them in.

I had two hands last night that were the reverse. in the first I had JJ in early position-- raised-- and then watched two guys go all-in-- the 2nd with way more chips than me. I folded-- both had AK suited and the one with the chips caught a flush which would have busted me.

Second time I raised early with 10-10, and watched the same scenario unfold. Folded again-- this time it was 33 vs 77-- but my initial disgust was soon replaced by relief when a 3 hit on the flop and then got busted by a 7 on the river.

[PokerFink]

In a tournament this is an easy all-in preflop. You're down to 11x the BB, you have a chance to triple up against 2 maniacs with a very strong hand. What exactly are you waiting for by folding? Tripling up here would give you a solid stack, so it's time to take that risk.

The pot is too large to try a stop and go on the flop, so might as well push preflop. Futhermore, your re-raise preflop is large enough to open the raising for the original PFR, meaning he might decide to re-raise and knock the 3rd player out.

In a cash game I probably play it exactly how you played it. Not that I would ever be sitting with 11xBB in a cash game anyway.

[xpander]

Get the chips in preflop. You're only behind QQ-AA and beat all other random hands. You have a huge edge in equity (see Pokerstove evaluation below), a chance to triple up, and are relatively short stacked. Also, a push may fold one of your opponents leaving you heads up with a greater edge.

20,263,856,382 games 187.921 secs 107,831,782 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 16.8204 % [ 00.16 00.00 ] { random }
Hand 2: 19.6767 % [ 00.19 00.00 ] { random }
Hand 3: 63.5029 % [ 00.63 00.00 ] { JdJc }

[icedevil2002]

to all of you who didn't realize it is a tournament
See I think what most of fail to realize is that if I go all in preflop while i maybe a fav. about 70% to win and I can guarantee that they will both call. if I just call preflop then I have to the option of being an even bigger on fav on the flop and picking up the pot if no ace hits. but I am definely right in that folding is probably the worst play

[PokerFink]

What happens if the flop comes A-3-4 rainbow. You're going to fold? What about K-3-4 or Q-3-4?

I don't see calling off half your stack preflop and folding on the flop, leaving yourself with 5x the BB. Move in preflop and see five cards with a chance to triple up.

[icedevil2002]

why not and the flop did come queen 6 2 all diamonds and I probably should have checked and folded knowing I was drawing to 2 outs. the problem is 70% of the time I am going to win correct so if I can call and then move all in I will know when I am good. Now If I move all in preflop I am going to lose 30% of the time what if I can alter that so instead of having a 70 30 split I can make it a 90 10 split or a 95 5 split