$200 NL 6max...things heat up with 2 overpair hands

Surfbullet · #1 11-03-2005, 03:19 AM

New to both tables so no reads unfortunately. I'm also new to NL(i'm a 10/20 and 15/30 limit 6max player by trade, i'm expanding my poker horizons for fun + self-improvement). Any insight would be much appreciated!

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($197.40)
Hero ($185)
Button ($50)
SB ($289.15)
BB ($269.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($13) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $6, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($25) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $15, BB raises to $69

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($218.90)
CO ($46.80)
Hero ($151)
SB ($58.85)
BB ($232.75)
UTG ($322.95)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, MP calls $2, CO calls $2, Hero raises to $12, 2 folds, MP calls $10, CO folds.

Flop: ($29) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $5, Hero raises to $25, MP calls $20.

Turn: ($79) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $35, MP raises to $125

Surf

#2 11-03-2005, 03:25 AM

HAND 1:
I'd raise more preflop. On the flop, I probably raise to at least 15, probably a tad more. As played, I fold on the turn.

HAND 2:
Tough hand, but I fold it to the turn raise.

mudbuddha · #3 11-03-2005, 04:52 AM

could u explain yourself more??

anyways, you gotta raise your AA more.. why did you raise your JJ to 6x when the aces you only raised 3x?

With stacks this deep, you have to open for more since everyone has 60-100x bb. you probably know already but unless your able to lay down AA easily your laying down huge implied odds.

Surfbullet · #4 11-03-2005, 01:16 PM

I raised AA to 3x because I was the first in the pot - that's my standard raies there. I raised JJ to 6x because there were limpers already in behind me.

I raise lots of hands first in (20-25%?) on the CO and button, so I didn't think about implied odds too much, that's important and i'll think more about that in the future.

Anyway I folded AA in the first hand. The board's pretty dangerous and it looked like he was trying to build a pot that I'd be stuck calling with a 1 pair hand.

The JJ hand was almost the same scenario, but for some reason I thought that he would be more likely to do it with a 1 pair hand or a draw since the board wasn't that dangerous. Villain had 33 and I felt like a limit donk [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Surf

jkkkk · #5 11-03-2005, 01:23 PM

hand 1:

raise more pf, raise flop, fold turn to CR.

hand 2:

Bet more on turn, fold to raise.

#6 11-03-2005, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
could u explain yourself more??

anyways, you gotta raise your AA more.. why did you raise your JJ to 6x when the aces you only raised 3x?

With stacks this deep, you have to open for more since everyone has 60-100x bb. you probably know already but unless your able to lay down AA easily your laying down huge implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise everything 4XBB, EVERYTHING. If i am mixing itup raising with 89s it will be the same raise as AA. If tehre are limpers I use the 'ol add a BB routine.

I think this is the best way to do it, am I wrong?

beavens · #7 11-03-2005, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could u explain yourself more??

anyways, you gotta raise your AA more.. why did you raise your JJ to 6x when the aces you only raised 3x?

With stacks this deep, you have to open for more since everyone has 60-100x bb. you probably know already but unless your able to lay down AA easily your laying down huge implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise everything 4XBB, EVERYTHING. If i am mixing itup raising with 89s it will be the same raise as AA. If tehre are limpers I use the 'ol add a BB routine.

I think this is the best way to do it, am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i always keep my raises the same as to disguise the strength

beset7 · #8 11-03-2005, 01:32 PM

(not looking at other posts)

Hand #1.

I'd make it 20-25 to go on the flop. I'd plan on folding to a push. If called it's going to be hard to give the villain credit for more then a FD but I'd tread cautiously. Play poker on the turn. As played, without any reads, its an easy turn fold for me. That c/r means business.

Hand #2. I prolly check the turn and call a smallish river bet. Not sure if that's right because of the 2-flush however. If you are going to bet the turn I think you have to bet more.

Ghazban · #9 11-03-2005, 01:35 PM

These are both tough spots for an overpair. However, your turn bets in both hands were a little on the small side. Betting the size you did could induce some opponents to come over the top on a bluff because you seem weak. While this is great if you plan on calling, it sucks when you aren't sure what to do. Specific comments:

Hand 1:
I would raise the flop every time. The reason for this isn't so much that I think I have the best hand as it is that I don't want people thinking they can donkbet me small and set their own price for the turn. Then I can also raise them on this flop with QQ and 77 and they'll fold their KQ thinking they must be beat. Given how you got to the turn, I would either bet it stronger or check behind. With the ace and king of spades accounted for, its not tremendously likely he's on a flush draw so charging him to draw isn't a primary concern (obviously, he could have a suited connector). Against an unknown here, I want to get to showdown cheaply and start to develop a read so I probably check behind and call a reasonable river bet on a non-horrible river.

Hand 2:
I'd raise the pot on the flop (to ~$30 total) but your amount isn't terrible. These small donkbets are often people trying to price in their flush draws. However, that action followed by a turn checkraise is going to be a set a huge percentage of the time (he's waiting for a safe turn to bomb it in case you have AhKh or something like that) so a fold is good. I like betting the turn here as villain looks to be on a draw and that turn card probably didn't help him. Once you get checkraised, a fold is in order.

#10 11-03-2005, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought that he would be more likely to do it with a 1 pair hand or a draw since the board wasn't that dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]

When the board isn't dangerous, it's hard to put your opponent on anything but a monster when they get creative. On draw-filled boards, an opponent might be getting creative with a draw. This monster bet doesn't look like a bluff to me.