worsdt mistake in poker

[Jdanz]

is folding to a river raise (in terms of magnitude of mistake).

I find myself calling A LOT on the river because folding too much is soooo easily exploitable.

This leads me to calling where i'd normally fold (via EV calc) because i don't want people trying to bluff raise me on the river.

How far do most people take this concept.

I feel like it's leading me to call way to many river's but i'm incredibly wary of giving anyone reason to exploit my play

[Spicymoose]

Definetly not the worst mistake in poker. Many times it should be apparant whether or not a fold or call (or raise) is needed after you get raised on the river. The times where you are unsure, usually the EV only swings a bit one way or the other, and the situation doesn´t come up that often.

The big mistakes in poker are those situations that come up fairly often, yet on its own doesn´t seem that big. Not raising K8s from the CO seems like a fairly big mistake to me.

[sthief09]

more specifically bet-fold is the worst move in shorthanded hold'em. i have said that a lot

i dont think id worry too much about people thinking they can make you fold. if youre playing well, theyll think youre an idiot anyway and probably didnt have anything. and with the amount that you are probably getting to SD with A high they cant help but think you never fold anything good

[naphand]

how can bet-fold possibly be the worst mistake in poker, esp. on the River?

bet-fold is an essential part of value-betting.

if you are in a spot where check-calling results in villain only betting hands better than yours and checking behind hands that are worse you must bet. where the board is scary and opponent is not a bluffer bet-fold extracts value on the River when he calls with worse hands, and you can fold safely when he raises better hands.

maybe at $10/$20 where you have habitual bluffers you are right, but not at $5/$10 and below, no way.

[Jdanz]

it most certainly is the worst mistake (i specifically said magnitude) though just as certainly not the most common. Folding a winner on the end is real bad, folding a winner on the end after aggressively putting money in on the river is the worst single mistake you can make. This can be discounted as the worst mistake as it is fairly uncommon, but it is also incredibly costly.

Simply speaking it's a pretty dangerous move to fold for one bet on the river, and therefore to do it you have to be pretty confident. My question is how confident, specificially do you also have to add a little bit more to the calling % to prevent exploitablity.

Point: if you commonly bet fold, because their calling range is larger then their betting range, and you're very willing to fold to the raise, a good player is going to start raising you A LOT, and force you into incredibly difficult situations.

[sthief09]

you are right. what i said really only applies to 10/20+

[ArturiusX]

Thinking players that adjust at the table are rare, so I don't think its a huge leak until you hit the high levels.

[mtdoak]

Huh? I think the worst mistake in poker is folding to a river raise heads up against a player who has the capability of bluff raising the river. If your firing one last shell with your whiffed 87s, you should fold to a raise, because, chances are, you can't beat a bluff. If your firing one last shell with your top pair and peter sir passive pants check raises you on a 3 flush/straight/ or paired board, muck without thinking. But, if the same situation vs Bobby Mc Bluffs raises a ton, you should almost always pay him off/call his bluff.

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]

This leads me to calling where i'd normally fold (via EV calc) because i don't want people trying to bluff raise me on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess there's some extra value in a river raise call because it (theoretically) makes your opponents' future actions more predictable. Then again, if you're not planning to fold in the future, either, then that value goes away. (Why wouldn't you want them to bluff raise you on the river - it's free money.) So when are you going to fold? (You have just moved the problem off into the future.)

A key factor of the EV calc is % of time opponent is bluffing.

To determine that % you include how often has he seen me fold to a river raise.

I don't think there's a profitable way to avoid doing this math by applying a universal rule.

/mc

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Huh? I think the worst mistake in poker is folding to a river raise heads up against a player who has the capability of bluff raising the river. If your firing one last shell with your whiffed 87s, you should fold to a raise, because, chances are, you can't beat a bluff. If your firing one last shell with your top pair and peter sir passive pants check raises you on a 3 flush/straight/ or paired board, muck without thinking. But, if the same situation vs Bobby Mc Bluffs raises a ton, you should almost always pay him off/call his bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]


naphand, this is a much better way of saying what i was trying to say