200NL UB Top Pair Weak Kicker

jimdmcevoy · #1 01-24-2005, 03:28 AM

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($210.45)
BB ($198)
UTG ($254.75)
UTG+1 ($133.50)
Hero ($218.40)
MP2 ($305.35)
MP3 ($76.65)
CO ($384.60)
Button ($214.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG+1 calls $2, Hero calls $2, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $2, CO folds, Button calls $2, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($12) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $12, MP3 calls $12, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($36) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $36, Hero raises to $72

Final Pot: $216

Okay, so I just moved up limits and I'm trying to get settled in. Anyone have any UB $200 NL experience?

The reason I checkraised the turn was that after he bet the pot, I couldn't put him on a hand that was better than mine.

And btw my checkraise put him all in.

pavement · #2 01-24-2005, 03:53 AM

I play this game all the time. Are you not afraid of A J, 2 pair, or a slowly played set? I play sets fast, especially with 2 of a suit on the flop but some of those players don't. I'm not sure you have the best hand here...I wouldn't put all my money in with top pair, mediocre kicker.

pavement · #3 01-24-2005, 04:01 AM

I'm seriously tired. The more I think about this hand, the more I think you are beat. You don't mention what type of player the villain is, but from my experience in this game, more often than not he will have better than TP, weak kicker.

jimdmcevoy · #4 01-24-2005, 05:41 AM

I had a sneaking suspicion that I had played this hand like total crap.

But the way he played the first two streets I found it hard to believe that he had AK or AQ. But then again I haven't been playing these limits for long, is this a reasonable assumption?

So anyway all I had to worry about on the turn (I thought) was a flopped set or top two. But the way I played my hand I thought that he would think there was a good chance I was on a draw, so why would he bet the full pot with his monster?

So I guess what I am asking is would some one at these limits play the first two streets like this guy did with AK or AQ? Also, would they play a set or a turned top two on the flop and turn like this?

I am used to 100NL where the answers to these questions is generally no.

BobboFitos · #5 01-24-2005, 08:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So anyway all I had to worry about on the turn (I thought) was a flopped set or top two. But the way I played my hand I thought that he would think there was a good chance I was on a draw, so why would he bet the full pot with his monster?

So I guess what I am asking is would some one at these limits play the first two streets like this guy did with AK or AQ? Also, would they play a set or a turned top two on the flop and turn like this?

I am used to 100NL where the answers to these questions is generally no

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... I used to play 200 NL on PStars exclusively, (which is nearly = UB, I guess) and I think you're right, somewhat, about MOST players not playing a better hand on the flop in this fashion. Flop looks like a draw, turn it doesnt.

Passive players w/ a strong hand would call the flop sothey could raise (all in) a blank turn. (Or call down)

I dont think you're good here.

All I do know is: No better hands are folding
And: If he was on a draw he's not folding, so that's good, I guess
And: It's hard to imagine him putting the last few bucks in with a hand that loses to AT, but it's possible. Depends how bad he is.

Out of curiousit: Did you check the turn w/ the intention of check raising? Or check as a "lets see what happens" ?

If yo uthink AT is good here I'd be like 30 on the turn and then the rest of his stack in on the river.

jimdmcevoy · #6 01-24-2005, 08:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Out of curiousit: Did you check the turn w/ the intention of check raising? Or check as a "lets see what happens" ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was flying by the seat of my pants.

After he immediantly fired out a pot bet, I was about to fold, (I sort of had it in the back of my mind that since he called my flop bet, I was goin for a check/fold on the turn) and had the turn been anything else I probably would have. But this turn card made it harder for me to put him on AJ (which i thought was a strong possibility after his flop call)

So after almost timing out, I raised him, as I figured raising was much better than calling.

He insta-called, and I thought **** me, I'm toast, how did I just get all in with top pair ten kicker?

He had A 8 sooooooted... (clubs) The river bricked and I was happy.

But I didn't want to be results driven, as I believe I made a mistake, so I posted here to get people to assure me I stuffed this up bad, so I won't do it again.

BobboFitos · #7 01-24-2005, 08:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And: It's hard to imagine him putting the last few bucks in with a hand that loses to AT, but it's possible. Depends how bad he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
He had A 8 sooooooted... (clubs) The river bricked and I was happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wellp. He's bad. =)

[ QUOTE ]
But I didn't want to be results driven, as I believe I made a mistake, so I posted here to get people to assure me I stuffed this up bad, so I won't do it again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... Glad it worked out for you. If you're think you're ahead though bet the turn like ~30 (enough so that it makes it 100% certain the last river bet will put him in, but also enough he WILL call with a weaker ace) and then the rest on the river. I think that's slightly better. Oh well

jimdmcevoy · #8 01-24-2005, 09:07 AM

Btw, Would you have played this hand like I did except fold to the turn bet? Is it worth a limp preflop in this position and a bet on the flop?

VanVeen · #9 01-24-2005, 09:08 AM

Against someone who is sitting at a 200nl table with $76, this line seems fine, although you're probably better off just betting until he's all-in. If they've bought in short, they're willing to go broke with top pair, weak kicker. Oblige!

I've played in the 200nl game on UB a handful of times and it's always seemed, as a general rule, incredibly tight-passive and 'weak'. If you check to an opponent who's sitting with $200, he's almost certainly not going to bet a hand that you can beat (i.e. I would assume he doesn't bet worse hands or draws until I have a read that says otherwise). If you bet the turn, he's probably laying down all made hands you can beat and calling with his draws (especially straight draws). You have to decide if he's holding a draw often enough to justify a turn bet that loses value vs. his worse aces but serves to protect your marginal hand against his possible draws. I'd lean towards betting the turn and folding to a raise or a river bet when he's checked to, although I would sometimes check with the intention of folding to a bet or leading the river (regardless of what card it is) for about half the pot if the turn is checked through. Your positional disadvantage really makes itself known here [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

BobboFitos · #10 01-24-2005, 09:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Btw, Would you have played this hand like I did except fold to the turn bet? Is it worth a limp preflop in this position and a bet on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

PF: Excellent. ATs is very playable. I'd bet the flop too, that is great. I generally dont bet the full pot, but I know on UB the button is right there so it's fairly convenient.

If Villain had more money the turn could be played in different ways, but as it is, yeah, I think you fold to a turn bet.

I have trouble playing TP OOP on the turn when they flat-call my flop bet, and a draw doesn't get there. Depending on players / texture, sometimes it's a bet-fold-to-raise, other times it's a check-then-evaluate, etc.

So yeah, hand was played well, and against better players, I think it's a turn fold. That bet will not often be a draw nor a weaker ace.