Reraised with QQ: Let us take a poll.

[Pensive Gerbil]

A few days ago I posted a QQ hand. Though two posters graciously shared their opinions, I would like to elicit the input of a larger sample of our community. Thus, I would be grateful to those who respond to this poll, and those who choose to post their reasoning. Here are the particulars:

In a ring game with $5-$10 blinds, you have $500 in your stack and QQ in your hand. You open for $30 in early position and MP makes it $100 to go. You believe MP would only reraise this amount with AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and very possibly TT. LP is a bad/loose player who calls $100 from the button, and the remaining players fold. Both of your opponents started the hand with about as much money as you. You believe LP has an inferior hand which he is likely to muck if you move all-in, and you believe MP is very likely to call (even with TT).

-PG

[Nero]

why the poll? its a pretty straight forward math problem and not really that hard. If MP's range is as stated and will call with that range its a very easy push, even without LP's extra money in the pot.

[Pensive Gerbil]

It is true that calculating whether moving all-in is positive EV would be fairly easy. Despite not having done the simulations and the math, it did seem to me that moving all-in would be positive EV even though it is not certain that MP would have reraised with TT (i.e., he is more likely to have AA/KK than JJ/TT).

However, just because moving all-in may be positive EV does not necessarily mean it is the best option. Determing whether calling could have a greater positive EV than raising all-in is a more complex problem.

-PG

[Pensive Gerbil]

At this time, about 62% of respondents favor calling before the flop; 21% would fold and 17% would reraise all-in. I am in the minority that moved all-in. In the actual hand, I lost to MP's AK (LP folded as expected).

I think I still bring a limit hold'em mentality to no-limit play. I tend to bet vulnerable hands aggressively to drive opponents out of the pot or make them pay. In this case, I would have called if I were head-up with MP, but I could not resist the opportunity to raise LP out of the pot.

The callers in the poll were evenly divided between betting and checking a flop that had no overcards. Once again, I would have been in the more aggressive (bet) camp. To those who favor checking, what would you do if MP bet all-in on a coordinated flop (with no overcards) and LP called?

The no-limit players I've seen on TV seem to routinely check the flop with good hands, hoping to trap opponents far more than I do. Do any successful NL players usually make good sized bets after flopping a strong pair or two pair?

-PG

[vector2]

After flopping TPTK, you'd be an idiot not to bet out immediately after making a good-sized raise preflop. You don't want your opponent checking behind you with some baby pair and then making a very well disguised set on the turn.

Don't compare TV tourney players to low-intermediate NL ring games. Just like in limit, it's expected for the preflop raiser to lead out on the flop (of course it depends on the texture of the board, but leading out is correct in the vast majority of cases). When you flop a monster, that's even more of a reason to lead out because many opponents expect you to slowplay such a hand. Take a look at the thread "How to play a set when it's obvious you have a set." Only idiots are going to fall for plays like making tiny bets on the flop and then check-raising a large bet on the turn etc.

Save your flop checks for when you make an unbreakable hand and you have a confident read on your opponent that he has nothing and needs to play catch up.

[Pensive Gerbil]

In my hand description, I wrote: "MP would only reraise this amount with AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and very possibly TT." I did not say that MP would ALWAYS reraise that amount with those hands. In fact, I think there is some chance that MP would have either called or reraised a smaller amount with AA.

-PG

[Pensive Gerbil]

[ QUOTE ]
After flopping TPTK, you'd be an idiot not to bet out immediately after making a good-sized raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for telling me what I wanted to hear! Perhaps I am not insufficiently tricky. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I am a bit more tricky in unraised pots, as well as after having called a reasonable raise. Even in these situations, however, I seem to bet out with good hands more than those TV stars.

[ QUOTE ]
Don't compare TV tourney players to low-intermediate NL ring games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Due to the premium placed on survival in progressive payout tournaments, as well as the relatively shallow money in the later stages of many tournaments, one could argue that those TV tourny stars should be less inclined to slowplay than ring game players.

-PG

[fsuplayer]

With those stacks, his range of hands, and the LP's dead money, I think I am pushing pf on this hand.

You are just too shallow to call the bet and then check fold on the flop. either fold pf or push...with his range of hands, push.