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#21
06-21-2005, 11:47 AM
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Re: lurker request; DERB update!
[ QUOTE ]
I also see what YOU'RE saying, but I am assuming a good player will adjust. I don't think that playing a DERB heads-up should be a problem for a good player, however... I do think that playing hands against a DERB AND a solid player(s) in the pot WILL present some serious adjustment problems. DERB might be very good at playing solid players off each other. In other words, the presence of a solid player in the hand along with DERB could make things very problematic for the solid players who are trying to play well to know how to proceed. I think it's much more complicated than this, but I don't have a lot of time right now to put a lot of thought into how to word this. [/ QUOTE ] The fact that you recognize that its complicated in some way proves my point. Playing a solid player is not complicated at all; playing against a loose preflop/solid, good, aggressive postflop player is complicated -- very complicated. And I agree completely with your 3-handed comment -- this may be as important or more important than my heads up distinction. I think you get it, but my overall point is this: In the world of limit holdem players, the top 10% (excluding the top 1%) of the players likely have VPIPs of between 18 and 24; however, the top 1% likely have much higher vpips. These obviously are just estimates to illustrate my point, but I think I'm almost correct. Questions that I have asked myself: (1) Can I become one of those 1%ers? (2) If so, can I learn to do this by moving back to the lower limits and playing a DERB style? I think the answer to (1) is yes, but unfortunately the answer to (2) is no; I don't think the style of play mastered by the DERB types will/can work at the lower limits (but I'm not sure). 
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#23
06-21-2005, 11:53 AM
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Re: lurker request; DERB update!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Playing a solid player is not complicated at all [/ QUOTE ] if this is true he's not solid. -Barron [/ QUOTE ] You're right. What I should have just said is that playing a solid player is less complicated than playing a solid postflop player who is more loose preflop. Alternatively, what I meant is that playing a solid, tight preflop player is less often complicated than playing a solid postflop, looser preflop player.
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#24
06-21-2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: lurker request; DERB update!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Playing a solid player is not complicated at all [/ QUOTE ] if this is true he's not solid. -Barron [/ QUOTE ] You're right. What I should have just said is that playing a solid player is less complicated than playing a solid postflop player who is more loose preflop. Alternatively, what I meant is that playing a solid, tight preflop player is less often complicated than playing a solid postflop, looser preflop player. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand your point. Yes, their hand range is wider if they are looser preflop, but you simply adjust for that fact postflop and make the optimal play, given their expanded hand range. They are making mistakes preflop, and I don't see how they can make up for that fact simply because you are unused to making the adjustment for their looseness. Especially since there are plenty of loose players preflop in these games so you indeed are used to adjusting for preflop looseness. I'm pretty sure that Paluka said that in the high limit games he plays in many people are as good as he is postflop but they give up too much preflop and he will therefore always have an edge in the game. That makes a lot of sense to me.
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#25
06-21-2005, 12:03 PM
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Re: lurker request; DERB update!
the only way to beat a "good maniac" is to play less hands than him and be a "bigger" maniac than him post-flop. you have to make him pay postflop for his low starting hand requirements. i wish someone would private message me his PP screen name so i could watch this derb fellow play.
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#27
06-21-2005, 01:35 PM
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Re: lurker request; DERB update!
[ QUOTE ]
title says it all; that was a fun thread to watch people share opinions on. any subsequent observations on the subject? [/ QUOTE ] I love how everyone is avoiding the actual question. So let me make it a bit more clear for everyone. What are your DERBs results for the last 30 days. What are his BB/100 and total $won? - Andrew www.pokerstove.com
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#29
06-21-2005, 02:30 PM
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Re: lurker request; DERB update!
at the time of the initial post there were at the conservative end 90k observed hands (individually) and probably 150k ahnds that have overlaps.
he was 30/18/2.1 ( i think) and was winning at a rate of 3bb/100 -Barron
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