Two 33 hands

brettbrettr · #1 05-24-2005, 11:12 PM

First one is a simple pre-flop thing:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, Folded to hero who?

I'd bet my cock that BB calls. Fold? Call? MP1 is a TAG. Button, if you haven't realized this, plays every hand.

Second hand:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 5 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

UTG is a LAP, 100 hands or so, 56/15/.9. I didn't want to whiff on the turn c/r. On the other hand, there's no draw there so maybe I should have taken a shot?

Stellastarr · #2 05-24-2005, 11:18 PM

1. Fold
2. 3-bet flop

mr pink · #3 05-24-2005, 11:18 PM

hand 1 - fold. your relative position to the pf raiser/likely flop bettor sucks. if you hit your set, at some point you're going to have to raise... being on the immediate left of the likely bettor will force the field with 2 cold, so you're unlikely to get paid off proper.

hand 2 - if you're just gonna call the flop raise, then you kinda have to go through with the check/raise. although, i think you make more in these situations by 3-betting the flop and leading the turn/river... forcing him into a calldown. the turn check/raise is such a strong move, that you might get a fold after 1 bb when he'd surely but in 2 street by street - not to mention another sb on the flop.

also, there are a lot of cards that can freeze up the flop raiser on the turn which could cause the check/raise to whiff. there are 3 overcards to the jack that might scare him into checking the turn behind.

Harv72b · #4 05-24-2005, 11:20 PM

Hand 1: I like a coldcall here, for the following reasons:

-You're almost certain that BB will stay in the hand, giving you at least 3 opponents.
-MP1, being a TAG, will be somewhat predictable postflop. You should be able to use position to find out where you stand quickly.
-Most opponents who play every hand will also pay off all the way to the river when they catch any piece of the board. That gives you good implied odds should you flop your set (I doubt the TAG is going to pay off unless he has a strong 2nd best hand).

If the blinds were tighter and you thought UTG would drop it for 2 more preflop, I might could see 3-betting here. But since I doubt it's going to get you isolation in this case, that's just spewing chips.

Hand 2: 3-bet the friggin' flop. The only reason you lead OOP with a flopped set is because you're hoping for the chance to 3-bet it.

brettbrettr · #5 05-24-2005, 11:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the friggin' flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

As for first hand, I'm not convinced.

Harv72b · #6 05-24-2005, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As for first hand, I'm not convinced.

[/ QUOTE ]

The two keys (in my mind) are that you have position on the PFR, and you have a read which can help you greatly narrow his holding down. If an A flops, you're out of there. If it's two bets to you postflop & you don't have a set, you're mucking. Even if it's 1 bet to you & you didn't hit, you're most likely folding with 3 opponents. But if you do flop that third trey, you're sitting pretty because the TAG isn't going to slow down with an overpair/TP until the turn, and the BB probably isn't going to fold.

I don't mind having the PFR directly to your right because of the player you anticipate having directly to your left. 90% VPIP guys just don't like to fold, pre- or postflop, regardless of how many bets they have to pay. So if the flop comes A93 and you raise the PFR's bet, BB is going to call with his crappy ace, or pocket 4s, or J9o, or 56s, or whatever. If you're really lucky and MP1 has AK & allows you to cap, BB is coming along again. That's what he does.

I'm sure it's a very narrow decision EV-wise, but I'd want to see the flop.

rmarotti · #7 05-24-2005, 11:33 PM

Betting your cock is a horrible idea.

brettbrettr · #8 05-24-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Betting your cock is a horrible idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it were my cock or ten million dollars that the BB would call I'd probably, well, ok I wouldn't make the bet. But I was sure he'd call and I wanted to convey that.

daftdg · #9 05-24-2005, 11:44 PM

I like the turn bet in hand two as well. Perfect spot for the bet/3-bet. Although, I guess it wasnt as perfect as it looked.

mr pink · #10 05-25-2005, 12:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But if you do flop that third trey, you're sitting pretty because the TAG isn't going to slow down with an overpair/TP until the turn, and the BB probably isn't going to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're putting a lot of faith into the TAG playing back at you with an overpair when i don't necessarily think that's always the case. more often than not, the TAG will whiff and you'll be stuck with a set and an autobetting tag on a rag flop, forced to raise and get it HU when he is planning on check/folding the turn.