50/100 Bottom Set, Unraised Pot - Page 3

DcifrThs · #21 09-25-2005, 09:37 PM

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my question is why do you fear the bigger set so much?

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What on earth makes you think he's afraid of a bigger set? Of course Bruiser thinks he is ahead.

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the ace is a great card!! why check call the turn? after villian bets 1300, dont you think a raise is warranted?

if he does call then he should lead the river no?

Barron

cwl · #22 09-25-2005, 09:45 PM

i think your best hope of making a lot of money on the hand is if you can do something that looks really suspect to him and just hope he goes for it. on this board in a limped pot there is just no way the betting can escalate in a good, normal way when your winning, which i think you generally are.

one example would be to bet out on the turn when the A hits. from his point of view it may look like your just trying to take advantage of a scare card but if he is thinking about the situation at all he should recognize that the A is very unlikely to have helped you.

something else that i sometimes wonder about in hands like this is whether its any good to just reraise the flop. the flop reraise has to look a bit like a resteal here cause why in the world would you be fastplaying a very strong hand on this board heads up? like the turn bet you just have to hope he thinks your full of it and decides to play.

basically, you just have to try to mimic a steal/resteal as best you can and hope he goes for it. often, even when he is suspicious he will just let it go but this seems like about the only way you might convince him to put some real money in with a worse hand.

if you dont feel like you can find anything that is likely enough to make him think your completely out of line playing your hand pretty passively doesnt seem that bad to me. if you play passively i imagine your hand looks a lot like a K to him so if he has a K beat he will probably value bet for you and if he doesnt he probably wont call your bet anyway.

cwl · #23 09-25-2005, 09:55 PM

i dont think its that he thinks the bigger set is the most likely hand for his opponent to have here. at every point in this hand i think bruiser is more likely to be ahead than behind and i suspect he would say the same thing. the possibility of the bigger set still matters a lot though because of how easy it would be in this hand for the betting to go in such a way that almost all the worse hands he wants to play against are shut out.

if aggressive play causes him to win about the same from the hands he is beating but to lose his stack vs a higher set then the possibility of the higher set should cause him to play passively even though its nowhere near his opponents most likely hand. im not saying this is exactly the situation in this hand but this thinking does come into play here.

theBruiser500 · #24 09-25-2005, 09:59 PM

I raise most of the time, for the most part I don't like limping preflop, I'm not used to those situations and get outplayed and get trapped when the blinds have trash, just never seems to work well for me. One situation I do like doing it in though is with low pocket pairs with LAGs to act behind which is what hte situation was. So they don't reraise me preflop, and so I don't have to check/fold an ugly flop.

"I think 77 tends to just call on the flop, but who really knows without knowing the player/game dynamics? Also, would he ever overlimp with AA after your limp?"

Maybe I'm off here, I don't think so but I completely disagree with this, which is apparently what everyone says. I think this is exactly how he would play a set of sevens. Limp preflop, and then we have big stacks so he's going to hope for the best and start building a big pot right away. I think it's the right way to play it too.

If I bet the river which I took a long time considering, is it with the intention of inducing a bluff raise from this tricky player this is going to go all the way reprsenting a hand or is it to value bet against a reasonable hand and with the intention of folding if he raises?

kurosh · #25 09-25-2005, 10:05 PM

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Checkraise the turn.

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Because if he has a weakish hand and he folds, there probably wasn't any more money going in there anyway, but if he has a strong hand, you will build the pot and get more out of him? Plus since he only bet half-pot, maybe he'll think bruiser is taking advantage of the little weakness he's showing? CR to about 4000-4500?

theBruiser500 · #26 09-25-2005, 10:07 PM

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A3, A7, K3, K7. Suspicious decent Ace might call one time if you checkraise medium. Flush draw can call as well.

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"What on earth makes you think he's afraid of a bigger set? Of course Bruiser thinks he is ahead. "

I was afraid of a bigger set why wouldn't you be? We have big stacks, he limps preflop and starts building a big pot right away. This is a classic situation of going broke with bottom set, vs. a good player, out of position on K73 rainbow board.

What could he have, K7 or a bluff or 77. A3 A7 K3 all seem weird because of small hand combos and it's weird that he'd play them that way. 77 makes the most sense, and then K7, and also a bluff seem possible. Your c/r the turn line seems like "okay I have a set, let's play it fast and hope for the best" thinking.

theBruiser500 · #27 09-25-2005, 10:09 PM

Also his turn bet size could mean he has a set and is hoping that ace hit me somehow and is inducing action from that or a lower set.

theBruiser500 · #28 09-25-2005, 10:12 PM

'something else that i sometimes wonder about in hands like this is whether its any good to just reraise the flop. the flop reraise has to look a bit like a resteal here cause why in the world would you be fastplaying a very strong hand on this board heads up? like the turn bet you just have to hope he thinks your full of it and decides to play.'

yeah i see what you're saying but i've tried it before and it just hasn't worked for me in practice. put yourself in his position, you would need absolute balls of steel to continue playing this after i 3 bet that flop.

'basically, you just have to try to mimic a steal/resteal as best you can and hope he goes for it. often, even when he is suspicious he will just let it go but this seems like about the only way you might convince him to put some real money in with a worse hand.'

this is what i was thinking on the river, make some sort of bet, and hope he shows courage and goes all the way with a bluff. but i decided that putting myself in this position against a good player was the wrong way to go, i don't understand why no one else is afraid of a set of sevens.

cwl · #29 09-25-2005, 10:12 PM

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"I think 77 tends to just call on the flop, but who really knows without knowing the player/game dynamics? Also, would he ever overlimp with AA after your limp?"

Maybe I'm off here, I don't think so but I completely disagree with this, which is apparently what everyone says. I think this is exactly how he would play a set of sevens. Limp preflop, and then we have big stacks so he's going to hope for the best and start building a big pot right away. I think it's the right way to play it too.

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you dont think the two players behind him make a call more appealing? i dont think the flop raise rules out 77 by any means but i think your point would be stronger if his play didnt completely shut out the 2 other players in the pot.

how do you interpret the smallish turn bet btw? seems a bit odd, especially coming after the full pot flop raise. one possibility that jumped to mind when i saw the turn bet is a hand like A7 that thought it might be bluffing the flop but basically wanted folks gone but that now thinks its milking a K.

theBruiser500 · #30 09-25-2005, 10:12 PM

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i dont think its that he thinks the bigger set is the most likely hand for his opponent to have here. at every point in this hand i think bruiser is more likely to be ahead than behind and i suspect he would say the same thing. the possibility of the bigger set still matters a lot though because of how easy it would be in this hand for the betting to go in such a way that almost all the worse hands he wants to play against are shut out.

if aggressive play causes him to win about the same from the hands he is beating but to lose his stack vs a higher set then the possibility of the higher set should cause him to play passively even though its nowhere near his opponents most likely hand. im not saying this is exactly the situation in this hand but this thinking does come into play here.

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thank you for saying it better than i could.