KQo..raised Multiway pot

TheHammer24 · #1 09-06-2005, 09:22 PM

Flop raiser is LPA over a couple hundred hands. Button is LPP and the other player is unknown.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO raises, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Button checks.

River: (10.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Good?

Nick C · #2 09-06-2005, 09:30 PM

One thing I'd consider is trying for a checkraise on the flop. However, with so many people in, we can't really count on the bet coming from the PFR, and the lead seems all right to me.

After leading, I would 3-bet. And then I'd be wincing and leading the turn. Your actual turn check doesn't seem so bad to me, though, as a follow-up to your flop call. I'm kind of surprised the turn got checked through.

I like the river bet, though the results surprise me. I guess everyone had AQ or something.

newhizzle · #3 09-06-2005, 09:39 PM

i like check-raising the flop, that way if everything works out you can face the field with a double bet, the way you played it, i donk bet any non diamond, non 9/T/A turn, check the one that came, i like the river bet, maybe a check would have induced a bluff from somewhere tho

Nutz&Boltz · #4 09-06-2005, 09:57 PM

check raise flop, bet turn

TheHammer24 · #5 09-06-2005, 11:16 PM

I 3-Bet the flop here a lot. The flop raiser's stats were something like 33/.8/.2

I thought the flop raise signified a great deal of strength thus, I thought I was in trouble.

Nick C · #6 09-07-2005, 01:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I 3-Bet the flop here a lot. The flop raiser's stats were something like 33/.8/.2

I thought the flop raise signified a great deal of strength thus, I thought I was in trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-betting would be my standard play against unknowns at the point when the action gets back to you on the flop. But, in addition to that, I also thought UTG+2 was LP-A.

If he was 33/.8/.2 instead, then I'd think I was in trouble too and would probably just call.

Moneyline · #7 09-07-2005, 01:47 AM

Preflop: I don't think this is an easy call, but I'd usually call just the same. If I think the CO is so passive that he'll only raise monsters preflop, then I'd muck... but this is rare.

Flop: I would definitely go for a check/raise here. By raising you can make gutshots and other marginal draws go away, but by betting out they'll probably call. The pot is big, so I think you must do whatever you can to maximize your chances of winning it. Betting will only fold out hands that have very little chance of outdrawing you.

Turn: I prefer betting out and folding if it gets raised(this is assuming you check/raised the flop and nobody 3bet). I think it's very unlikely you'd get raised by a hand you beat here. Also, you'd hate to give a free card to someone holding a card like the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], so I really wouldn't want this street to get checked around.

River: With a blank like that I'd value bet.

Just my opinion...

W. Deranged · #8 09-07-2005, 02:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
check raise flop, bet turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of the big blind this is a perfect situation for a check-raise.

Simply calling the flop raise and checking back the turn is bad, because very often the flop raise if from a draw and you really don't want to be giving free card opportunities. Only after at least a flop three-bet am I will to consider checking the turn, and in that situation I'll often still call the flop three-bet and then bet out the turn anyway.

jskills · #9 09-07-2005, 09:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i like check-raising the flop, that way if everything works out you can face the field with a double bet

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have a contradiction in your logic here.

Check raising the flop would actually bring 3 extra opponents along after they call preflop raiser's initial flop bet (so only UTG+1 would end up facing two bets).

This is a good example of being aware of relative position to a preflop raiser. The OP in this hand donked the flop knowing he'd likely be raised in order to make the other 3 people in the hand behind him face two.

Check raising would be the only be the right move if OP acted after preflop raiser on the flop.

jskills · #10 09-07-2005, 09:20 AM

Well played on all streets given read on villan.

To all who advocate a flop check raise (with mention of "making people go away" or "face two bets") - a check raise does not accomplish that in this particular hand, it actually keeps people in the hand and makes the pot larger (which only increases the chances of people staying to see the river).

With TPGK you'd like to get this hand heads up. Leading the flop and anticipated original PFR raising makes the majority of the field face two bets cold.

It's all about relative position when someone else has raised preflop.