KJs, A simple flop question

[Azhrarn]

Early hand, but I can already tell the table is loose. UTG's a TAG. MP3's a thinking LAG. Rest are unknown.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $7.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

I rarely coldcall, but this seemed like the right spot.

Flop: (13.80 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Hero...

Call or cap? Why?

[W. Deranged]

1. I think pre-flop cold-call is fine in what will be a large, multiway pot. Your hand plays well in that situation.

2. Cap that [censored]! You probably have an equity edge against the field so long as no one has the nut draw (this is more possible than usual, so be careful...) Also:

-Capping may encourage a hand like AJ or KQ to fold, cleaning up outs.

-Capping may earn a free card.

Basically, the only way you're in bad shape is if you're up against the nut draw. That may well be the case like 25% of the time here, but you can't worry about that really. Since you can't let your hand go at this point, capping is better than calling in my opinion.

[Bodhi]

Nice table selection.

Anyway, I just call here because it looks like the others will do the raising for me. This flop is going to get capped.

P.S. if I thought it would buy a free card, I would cap it, but that seems unrealistic.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice table selection.

Anyway, I just call here because it looks like the others will do the raising for me. This flop is going to get capped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. The flop probably is going to get capped. Since that's going to happen, I sure as hell want to be the one doing it. The even remote likelihood that, say, everyone will check to me on the turn or someone in EP will fold because I capped is worth it for me to be the one to throw that bet in.

[TheHammer24]

This might be one of the biggest flop pots I have seen in a while.

Preflop cold call is optimal IMO. The pot is going to be huge and you have good implied odds with a hand that plays good multiway.

On the flop. I like capping your immediate odds are 23:4, but you will get more bets into the pot from those who have already committed chips on this round and end up calling your cap. Ideally, you get AJ, KQ, and other hands to fold.

This is why cold calling with KJs sucks, but I think it's ok in this situation.

Cap flop, and this is why. If you diamond comes on the turn and you don't cap the flop, then the three better will bet, you will raise and chance knocking out the other two guys. If you do the capping then there is a chance it will be checked to you, you bet, and get call call call. Then the river plays out the same (you hope).

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why cold calling with KJs sucks, but I think it's ok in this situation.

Cap flop, and this is why. If you diamond comes on the turn and you don't cap the flop, then the three better will bet, you will raise and chance knocking out the other two guys. If you do the capping then there is a chance it will be checked to you, you bet, and get call call call. Then the river plays out the same (you hope).

[/ QUOTE ]

This observation on how capping the flop will improve turn play is a very nice one, in my opinion. Yet another reason to cap.

[Azhrarn]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I called the flop, then immediately suspected I had made the wrong choice.

Here's the full hand, if anyone was curious:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $7.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (13.80 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (14.90 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

River: (14.90 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 16.90 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
MP1 has 7d Ah (two pair, fours and twos).
MP3 has 8h 8s (two pair, eights and fours).
Outcome: MP3 wins 16.90 BB. </font>

[davet]

Yep, the flush is expected to come 35% on four to a flush on the flop.

Let me guess, maniac won with ten- high?

Welcome to poker.

[Nutz&Boltz]

looks good