How valuable would a $215 coach really be?

Oluwafemi · #1 09-04-2005, 04:07 PM

i was reading an old thread through the archives where SvnFigures/iamcastleman stated that he taught his brother Gigabet how to play and he's now clearing $20K a month. later on in the thread, Gigabet stated that iamcastleman charged him $20,000 and he, in turn, would charge $30,000 [don't know if this is really true or not].

now, my question is it worth it to pay $20-$30,000 in order to be coached and taught how to beat the $215s or better? if so, how much of an ROI would you be looking to get out of such a large tuition fee?

one big problem that i had with the fee, as a working class man, is that i don't have $20 or $30K just laying around to shell out and even if i did, i highly doubt i would use it toward paying some guy to teach me how to beat $215 SNGs. don't get me wrong, that is one of my ultimate goals [reaching the $215s and achieving a decent ROI in them] but i'd most likely use that money to fund a bankroll playing/multi-tabling the $33s and $55s and just move up gradually on my own.

i have a twin brother in Florida, and frankly, if i was making $20K a month in the $215s, i would'nt charge him anything to teach him how to play. i'm a naturally giving person, so if i can help someone in need, and money was'nt an issue, my thing is, why charge them? then again, that just me--- i'm not knocking the brothers Dicken.

comments.

lorinda · #2 09-04-2005, 04:09 PM

Look at it backwards, if you're earning 20-30k a month playing poker and you have to cancel a month to give someone intensive training, how much would you want in compensation?

Lori

Oluwafemi · #3 09-04-2005, 04:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Look at it backwards, if you're earning 20-30k a month playing poker and you have to cancel a month to give someone intensive training, how much would you want in compensation?

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

first off, i would'nt cancel a month. i would arrange my day to where i could accomodate fitting coaching my broham into my schedule. as a matter of fact, if i'm making $20-$30K per month, i would spend that whole month in Florida doing it.

Shilly · #4 09-04-2005, 04:11 PM

Do you know what Gig's brother is up to now?

I'm almost positive he (Iwascastlemn) was sitting on my right in a $22 yesterday. Not that that's really indicative of where he's playing now, but I thought it was a bit strange.

Oluwafemi · #5 09-04-2005, 04:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you know what Gig's brother is up to now?

I'm almost positive he (Iwascastlemn) was sitting on my right in a $22 yesterday. Not that that's really indicative of where he's playing now, but I thought it was a bit strange.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know much about SvnFigures/iamcastleman. he did say in the thread he is a family man with a real job and only plays poker part-time [saying something to the affect of he couldn't assume that the extra income from poker would last forever if he quit his job].

*he also said he bankrolled Gigabet, too.*

#6 09-04-2005, 06:12 PM

I would say it is worth it only if the following conditions hold;
1. You are really serious about beating the 215s, i.e., you wanna become a SNG pro and make a living on that.
2. you play relatively poor right now or a total novice which means the room for improvement is big
3.the guy who will coach you is truly a top-notch player who has played at least 3000-4000 215s and had a solid track record and he is willing to teach you everything he knows about this game. he also has to be a top-notch coach

but still, i would not be comfortable to charge my friend or relative that kind of hefty tuition

Oluwafemi · #7 09-04-2005, 07:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would say it is worth it only if the following conditions hold;
1. You are really serious about beating the 215s, i.e., you wanna become a SNG pro and make a living on that.
2. you play relatively poor right now or a total novice which means the room for improvement is big
3.the guy who will coach you is truly a top-notch player who has played at least 3000-4000 215s and had a solid track record and he is willing to teach you everything he knows about this game. he also has to be a top-notch coach

but still, i would not be comfortable to charge my friend or relative that kind of hefty tuition

[/ QUOTE ]

so take a guy like me who plays $5, $11, and sometimes $22 SNGs [both 1- and 2-table]. i have played probably at least 1000 in my career with decent but not overwhelming success. do you think it would be to my benefit to pay that amount of money in order to make that leap [let's say i had the money]?

Shilly · #8 09-04-2005, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would say it is worth it only if the following conditions hold;
1. You are really serious about beating the 215s, i.e., you wanna become a SNG pro and make a living on that.
2. you play relatively poor right now or a total novice which means the room for improvement is big
3.the guy who will coach you is truly a top-notch player who has played at least 3000-4000 215s and had a solid track record and he is willing to teach you everything he knows about this game. he also has to be a top-notch coach

but still, i would not be comfortable to charge my friend or relative that kind of hefty tuition

[/ QUOTE ]

so take a guy like me who plays $5, $11, and sometimes $22 SNGs [both 1- and 2-table]. i have played probably at least 1000 in my career with decent but not overwhelming success. do you think it would be to my benefit to pay that amount of money in order to make that leap [let's say i had the money]?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. If the coach's skills transferred directly to you, it might be, but I think a sheer lack of experience at those levels may result in you losing, even with an excellent coach. I think that over a long period of time you might become a solid winner, but you'll still be a losing player for a while.

Newt_Buggs · #9 09-04-2005, 07:19 PM

I'm going to step into controversial territory and say that with any coach its unlikely that you would be able to beat the $215s in just a months training. Like many things in life, it seems like poker success is a mixture of hard work and predisposition. Some people are just naturally good at the game and I bet that every player who has risen to the $215s in under 6 months time has both worked hard at it and been gifted with natural talent.

I don't mean to put you down in any way or say that you can't be a top notch poker player, but with where you're at right now it would probably be a better investment to get a solid $55-$109 player for a much lower (although still hefty) rate than one of the top $215 players.

#10 09-04-2005, 08:06 PM

yeah. i think it might be worth it for you if you still have enough money left to play 215s assuming all other conditions I listed hold. for example, without a coach, you might start on a 0-2% ROI on 215s, most likely you will lose money when you start at that level right now. if that coach can somehow get you start at 8%-10% ROI, you can get your investment back after playing 1000-1500 215s, which probably will take 2-3 months. and after that you maybe able to get to a higher ROI and all the extra money you make is pure profit.without a coach, it may take you one year longer to reach the same level and very likely you may even never get there by yourself. of course, the training has to be very intense. and when you start playing 215s, your coach may have to sit by you side by side to intruct you on every move then analyze everything after each SNG is finished. this period may take 50-100 SNGs before you can play on your own. and even in that period, a good coach should get hand history from you periodically and critique your play. after a while, if the coach cant find any big hole in your game anymore, you can then be set loose forever. this is why i think the coach has to be very good at both poker and teaching.