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  #11  
Old 12-28-2005, 02:53 PM
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:10 PM
GtrHtr GtrHtr is offline
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Default Re: KK: raise more on flop?

I'll grunch this.

1. I think you played it fine. But you know what my opinion is worth. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

2. I wish you hadn't posted the results, but I'd put one flop caller on a spade draw and the other (UTG) on who knows?

3. UTG raising allin on the turn wouldn't bother me, although his hand is either now on a flush draw with clubs or who knows. I think putting your chips in here is fine, no other options that I can see.

4. To your original question, on the flop after UTG bets t60, I'd push. I think you have the best hand on the flop and I hate the flop creating a lot of outs in a multi-way pot.

Man, I love the 22s, too bad they don't love me back.
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:10 PM
wildzer0 wildzer0 is offline
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Default Re: KK: raise more on flop?

I've been experimenting with being ridiculously aggressive with big hands. I find I'm getting paid off more often than not. If you raise more preflop, you eliminate the implied odds they have to call with a smaller pocket pair (ie. if CO thinks you have a big pair and you'll get your whole stack in if he makes a set, he's getting the implied odds he needs to call here).

Also, I push the flop, it looks like a semi-bluff and you might get a call from a huge underdog.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:11 PM
Vuron00 Vuron00 is offline
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Default Re: KK: raise more on flop?

Your flop bet pretty much committed you and unless you were planning to fold to a turned Ace or Spade, just push the flop.
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:15 PM
wildzer0 wildzer0 is offline
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Default Re: KK: raise more on flop?

OK, after reading the replies I have another comment, and a further defense for pushing the flop. When you overbet the pot there, many opponents will instantly read you for 2 big unpaired cards trying to steal and will play sheriff with smaller pocket pairs. Bad players love to call overbets with weak hands because they think they're going to catch you bluffing.
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:20 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: KK: raise more on flop?

[ QUOTE ]
OK, after reading the replies I have another comment, and a further defense for pushing the flop. When you overbet the pot there, many opponents will instantly read you for 2 big unpaired cards trying to steal and will play sheriff with smaller pocket pairs. Bad players love to call overbets with weak hands because they think they're going to catch you bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, I don't think pushing the flop needs to be defended. I seriously considered it at the time.

But, say UTG had checked. Would this be an open push then on this flop? I just looked at his bet as, "Well, maybe the guy has a couple of overs and whiffed. My hand's okay and I'd really like for him not to bet anything." So I raised instead of pushing. I think I should have either raised a bit more or just pushed. My default play would be to push here.
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  #17  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: KK: raise more on flop?

Since the flop has two of a suit and you have one of those suits, I really like a 350 bet here.

If it had two of a suit which I didnt have I'd instapush.

If it was rainbow I'd bet somewhere around where you did.
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  #18  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:29 PM
wildzer0 wildzer0 is offline
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Default Re: KK: raise more on flop?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OK, after reading the replies I have another comment, and a further defense for pushing the flop. When you overbet the pot there, many opponents will instantly read you for 2 big unpaired cards trying to steal and will play sheriff with smaller pocket pairs. Bad players love to call overbets with weak hands because they think they're going to catch you bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, I don't think pushing the flop needs to be defended. I seriously considered it at the time.

But, say UTG had checked. Would this be an open push then on this flop? I just looked at his bet as, "Well, maybe the guy has a couple of overs and whiffed. My hand's okay and I'd really like for him not to bet anything." So I raised instead of pushing. I think I should have either raised a bit more or just pushed. My default play would be to push here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see, we're looking at this in sort of an opposite way. I'm more likely to push after his donk bet because I think a push looks like more of a scared bet. I'm hoping he reads a push here as "He's trying to bully me out of this pot because he thinks I have a better hand then him". I think a pot sized bet looks stronger to your opponents here, especially since you're basically comitted after that. They're more likely to think you have a hand you really want to get your chips in with but you don't want to lose any customers. Or else they're thinking "weee! I've got pocket 3's. That's the nuts!", what do I know? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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