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  #11  
Old 12-24-2005, 08:47 PM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
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Default Re: Having position: could it be mutually beneficial to swap places?

I think you both benefit. You both want tighties on your left and loosies on your right.

Now how could you go about getting the guy to switch with you in an online game? Suggesting it in the chat box is likely to upset the other players, who will likely think that whatever your're doing for your own advantage is somehow to their disadvantage.
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  #12  
Old 12-25-2005, 11:36 PM
RoundTower RoundTower is offline
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Default Re: Having position: could it be mutually beneficial to swap places?

Was away for a while, but I wanted to post my thoughts on answering the question.

I really don't want to discuss here whether I could play 50% of hands profitably in that poker game; I don't know what anyone is doing telling me I can't when they don't even know what game we were playing. What if the game was 3-handed? What if we were playing stud with ante = 1/2 SB? I deliberately left that information out of the OP, I don't think it's really relevant but it was a deep stacked PLO game with some bad players.

I do think switching places is beneficial for both of us, and so it must be bad for the other players at the table. To see why they lose out, suppose we were three handed with me, the rock, and a loose fishy player. Then the best configuration for the fish is to have me on his right and the rock on his left, and he will start to lose money if the two of us switch places. With more players the effect is distributed among all of them: each wants me on the right and the rock on the left, and when we switch places I am further to their left and he is further to their right. They will lose out by having position on me one less time each round, and they won't be in enough hands with him to gain the same amount by having position on the rock.

Hope this interests someone; it helped me get my thoughts straight. TomBrooks I have no idea how you could arrange this on the Internet.
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:07 AM
tighterr tighterr is offline
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Default Re: Having position: could it be mutually beneficial to swap places?

Hi roundtree
I do agree that the placing of you and the rock do have a large affect on the entire table.

I am not a stud player by any means so this might be the issues as to why I cannot see how it helps the both of you to switch places. If you could explain how you believe it helps both of you to switch places it would be greatly appreciated. At the moment I can only see the switch harming you.

This is assuming that the tight player will now be able to attack you and isolate.
Merry Christmas
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:51 PM
RoundTower RoundTower is offline
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Default Re: Having position: could it be mutually beneficial to swap places?

[ QUOTE ]
Hi roundtree
I do agree that the placing of you and the rock do have a large affect on the entire table.

I am not a stud player by any means so this might be the issues as to why I cannot see how it helps the both of you to switch places. If you could explain how you believe it helps both of you to switch places it would be greatly appreciated. At the moment I can only see the switch harming you.

This is assuming that the tight player will now be able to attack you and isolate.
Merry Christmas

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify -- this was a pot limit omaha game, not stud. I don't feel isolation is an important concept in this game compared to limit or no limit hold'em, except with certain hands that play excellently headsup but usually want to be all in preflop. The deep stacks prevent that in this game.

It helps me to have this player on my right because when I am in a pot, he probably isn't. For example when I am one off the button I am likely to have position on the whole table, since he will probably fold. Having him on my right isn't that beneficial to me, I'd much rather a looser player slipped in there.
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  #15  
Old 12-27-2005, 05:36 PM
AaronBrown AaronBrown is offline
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Default Re: Having position: could it be mutually beneficial to swap places?

You're right. Everyone, loose or tight, wants loose players on his right and tight players on his left. When you shift, you get a tight player on your left, he gets a loose one on his right. The player who used to be on your left, now has a tight player instead of a loose player on his right. She loses. The player who used to be on his right, now has a loose player instead of a tight player on his left. He loses.

The only reason it seems impossible is when you're both in middle position, it doesn't seem to matter to anyone else at the table which of you acts first. Whichever order the two of you sit, everyone else at the table gets to see either both or neither of your actions before acting.

In practice, the pots might be larger with you acting first. You might call in situations when you would have folded if the tight player had acted first. In theory, it shouldn't make any difference to the average pot size, if we assume you both factor in the other's tendencies properly.

The difference to the table is the one hand per round when he is under the gun and you are big blind. Then the whole table gets a tight player acting first, with a loose player acting last.
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:43 PM
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
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Default Re: Having position: could it be mutually beneficial to swap places?

This just isn't true of Pot Limit Omaha against poor players. Hand values run much closer together in Omaha, and position is almost more important than your hand.

I suspect that both players would gain from switching spots. The tight player would gain the on the few hands he plays from the loose player, but the loose player would likely gain more from having another loose player on his right for all the other hands.

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed - there's not much short of cheating that will allow you to win if your only mucking every other hand.

But the question wasn't whether switching seats would make you a winner, it was (if I understood it correctly) whether you would IMPROVE.

- BTW, I didn't notice RTs's response; I've been in and out alot the last few days and when I read the OP I have had time to read only a few responses prior to authoring my own.

If RoundTower said the same thing might I resond with . . .

nh, and happy holidays !

[/ QUOTE ]
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