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  #1  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:32 PM
HighStakesPro HighStakesPro is offline
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Default I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP1 calls, Hero folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks.

River: (12.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Kd As (straight, ace high).
MP1 has 9c Qd (two pair, queens and fours).
SB has 6s 5d (one pair, fours).
Outcome: BB wins 14.25 BB. </font>

This wasn't a wild table or anything like that, but I was stunned by the hands that were shown down. I thought for sure on the flop that at least one person had either an overpair or a set. As it was they had 11 outs combined to outdraw me (3 Aces, 3 Kings, 1 Queen, 4 Eights). Should I have kept calling, or was I just unlucky on this hand in general? The idiot small blind and his six-five offsuit ended up costing me tthe hand.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

Any reads would be nice. But in their absence, the pot is huge on the flop. You've got an over pair to the board which may or may not be good, a BDFD and BDSD, at least call if not 3-bet the flop, then reeavaluate on the turn.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:49 PM
bozlax bozlax is offline
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

Uh, the SB is stacking off. BB probably realizes that, widening his range preflop a tad. Problem you've got is that BB is likely to have at least an ace, so if he's not already on a better pp, he's got outs on you. And MP1 hanging around with a possible flush draw doesn't make it any easier. If I don't know enough about BB to think he's trying to isolate the short-stack, I fold, otherwise I 3-bet. This is not a flop to be cold-calling.

[ QUOTE ]
The idiot small blind and his six-five offsuit ended up costing me tthe hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad way to think, this.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:49 PM
HighStakesPro HighStakesPro is offline
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

What do "BDFD" and "BDSD" mean?
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:50 PM
bozlax bozlax is offline
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

[ QUOTE ]
What do "BDFD" and "BDSD" mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

"Back-door flush/straight draw"...it means that on the flop you've got 3 cards to a straight or a flush, so you'd need runner-runner (the right two cards in a row) to have your draw come in.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:53 PM
HighStakesPro HighStakesPro is offline
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

Oh okay, I know what backdoor draws are, just wasn't familiar with those abbreviations.
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

Even without any reads, i'd have it hard to fold an overpair/bdfd/bdsd with a pretty decent sized pot on the flop.

I like re-evaluating on the turn... but I am a newbie
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:57 PM
HighStakesPro HighStakesPro is offline
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

I know there's a case for calling, but it seems like all the other times I call down in situations like this they show me aces or kings. And there's the problem of a lower pocket pair having a set
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

MAYBE T or J.. but i'd find it hard to cap PF with TT (maybe JJ as well?) with 4 people in

I think i'd rule out capping 44 personally.

AA or KK could be a concern.. but I think the checked turn would make ya feel good.
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2005, 08:04 PM
bozlax bozlax is offline
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Default Re: I HATE POCKET QUEENS!!! Should I have called down?

[ QUOTE ]
Even without any reads, i'd have it hard to fold an overpair/bdfd/bdsd with a pretty decent sized pot on the flop.

I like re-evaluating on the turn... but I am a newbie

[/ QUOTE ]

Problem is, it may cost you 4 bets, not just 2, to see the turn, but won't give you any new information.
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