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  #1  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:33 AM
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Default table talk

one of the main the main things that i have been experimenting with over the past few weeks is table talk. im coming from 2 different schools on the subject: the daniel negreanu mr. nice-gue, and the phil helmuth bastard. and ive found that these 2 styles work best against different types of players.
mr. nice guy works best against friendly players: the type of people youd sit down and have a beer with.
mr. bastard works best against players who think they are really tough. if u can find one of these guys at an otherwise really soft table with this guy and prod him right you can make a lot of money.
i think that under the right circumstances, mr bastard can make more money, but he is a much bigger risk. if u dont read the table properly, it will totally backfire.
some other mr bastard cues that are good are: against a female player insult the fact that she is a woman. this can be particularly strong against the right women, but against strong players it is a definitely a liability.
against really macho players, the best thing to do is find a particular play that he made that wasnt very good or that u can make seem like it wasnt very good. this will really bother him, and youre likely to get some extremely loose calls from him.
mr nice guy gets a lot more folds, but he doesnt really have a many key opponents to talk about.
i still have a lot more work to do in this area, of course.
this is my first post, so any feedback would be nice: helpful, not, innane, useful, worthless, etc. im also looking for a topic for a full-blown essay if anyone has any suggestions. obviously no one can take much of what say seriously at this point in my carreer but i hope to change that soon, if not by my playing then by my writing. thanks, lm.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:46 PM
AaronBrown AaronBrown is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
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Default Re: table talk

Effective table talk is more about listening to other people than what you say. A guy who broadcasts opinions without looking anyone in the eye just gets tuned out. But if you pay attention, a slight expression change or mild comment aimed properly can make a big difference.

You also have to keep it unpredictable. If you never say anything that surprises anyone, there's no point in listening. Even if you decide to go with nasty, make sure to mix in enough complements or friendly comments so it seems real; similarly, even a really nice guy has to get assertive sometimes.

It's harder than it looks to project a useful table image. You can try to adopt a personality, or mimic a pro, but you'll look like that's what you're doing. That won't help your game.
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2005, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: table talk

I find the friendly approach works best in all circumstances. It gets me more calls when I want them and more checks when I don't want to call a bet. And it really works great against the nasty tough guy who tries to get under my skin. No one can do that, I'm immune. I just smile back and say nice things. It drives them crazy.
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:55 PM
Snarf Snarf is offline
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Default Re: table talk

I'll admit to having my moments at the table. (don't most of us?) But as for the rest of the time...I try to be as pleasurable as possible. I'm with Slansky on this one.

Players should like you...enjoy giving you money...and be happy that you're winning...

MR. Bastard will have people taking shots at you - which could be very profitable if you 'read' well and will make marginal calls at times...but the added profitability of this I would think goes down on the internet without the live reads.
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2005, 08:25 PM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
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Default Re: table talk

I hardly ever talk about anything.

Welcome to the forums.


14thR2a1stP
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2005, 11:23 PM
Mike Cuneo Mike Cuneo is offline
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Default Re: table talk

Why did you wait so long to make your first post? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 05:46 PM
winky51 winky51 is offline
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Default Re: table talk

[ QUOTE ]
I find the friendly approach works best in all circumstances. It gets me more calls when I want them and more checks when I don't want to call a bet. And it really works great against the nasty tough guy who tries to get under my skin. No one can do that, I'm immune. I just smile back and say nice things. It drives them crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree, friendly is MUCH better.

Look at it this way. If someone gets pissed off at you because your being a gigantic weiner then they play more UNpredictable which is not good. If you are always friendly they play more predictable.

I am always friendly to players and they show me their hands when I fold to say "see buddy I wasnt bluffing and Im showing because I like you".

Also it calms the aggressive players dont. You can scream at a wall all you want but if he doesnt scream back whats the point. We had a dick at one final table once slamming his fist, screaming when he won, being super aggressive, daring people to call. He was rude to me on several occasions and I was always nice to him. Guess what, he didn't screw with me once. I raise he folds, I bluff he folds, I bet he folds. THis was heads up now and this guy was folding hands like A6, KJ, AJ to my bets. I was just be nice and sit still. He would also show me his cards. It was amazing. He was a jerk to everyone tossing his chips in but when I was in a pot he ran.

Be nice, dont give them a reason to call unless you want one. My philosphy is dont antagonize the fish to put your whole stack at risk unless you want to. Id rather win 12 small pots 100% of the time than try and win 4 smaller pots 75% of the time each. Bad players are looking for any excuse to call an all in with crap. If your nice players dont bluff as much feel bad when they win vs you, show hands, become predictable.

When you are a prick they become unpredictable, tey to push you out of hands, call out of spite. Even AQ vs KK is 30% to win my friend.

I love being nice live, I can bluff so much more.
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 08:52 PM
mike l. mike l. is offline
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Default Re: table talk

"against really macho players, the best thing to do is find a particular play that he made that wasnt very good or that u can make seem like it wasnt very good."

ah i did this the other night against a guy who was beaming with confidence and playing tight and right mostly and having a good session. he got into it with me in a big limit hold em pot and he had AK and i had AQ and by the end the board read Qxy-z-K and he checkraised me on the river and i said ah you got there man and folded face up and he showed AK and i started laughing really hard and making faces and pointing at him and i said "you clown! you chased all that way for that king! you looked SO stupid just now when you showed that hand! i thought you played good!" the whole table was laughing at him and at the commotion i was making. he had a very embarassed look on his face. he then proceeded to quietly tilt off 3 racks to the whole table.

so table talk can be good.
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:19 PM
dfan dfan is offline
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Default Re: table talk

I suppose character, ethics, karma and feeling good about what you are doing are out of bounds in this discussion?

Unlike a vocal minority of poker players I don't get any pleasure from berating other players or making them feel bad. In fact, if I did that I would not like myself very much. I play poker to win money, but fortunately I can do that without being a prick. If I couldn't, I would quit.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: table talk

I prefer to be at a minimum, decent to the other players. I have moods after bad beats, bad plays, etc., where I'm not exactly all smiles, but overall I try to be friendly and easy to talk to. Please remember, this is, for the vast majority of us, a hobby. It's a tough game with it's own pressures. Most of us want to win, want to improve and want to be respected as players, but most of all, we want to enjoy the experience. Having some a$$hole constantly berating other players not only turns it from fun into something else. By the way, the majority of players with the discipline and skill to play in big money games, won't be swayed by the antics of a jerk anyway. Welcome to 2+2, nice to have you here. By the way, I suck, so don't listen to me.
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