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Old 12-21-2005, 12:50 AM
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Default Bad kicker...maybe not so bad

We all know kickers can be the difference between best and second best hands. BUT, with all the garbage flops that happen your bad kicker can make an open ended straight along with top pair. So even though I have been out kicked by even one rank many times, I have taken down big pots with having a bad kicker that has made a straight or two pair. How important in "today's" game is the kicker?
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 03:04 AM
ohnonotthat ohnonotthat is offline
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Default Re: Bad kicker...maybe not so bad

How important are kickers in TODAY'S game ? ? ?

- I'll grant you that your kicker will be less of a factor in today's (Wednesday's) game than in tomorrow's (Thursday's) game but it's likely equal in importance to yesterday's, or even last week's game. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Granted, if your kicker is an Ace you will make fewer one-card straights but . . . all your one-card flushes will be nut flushes.

I hope that helped to clear things up.

- Now run along and play nice with the other kids and remember to wash your hands BEFORE all meals and AFTER all squats.

- Is it too late to nominate this post for the annual "I hope this person doesn't work with children" award ? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:02 AM
pudley4 pudley4 is offline
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Default Re: Bad kicker...maybe not so bad

[ QUOTE ]
We all know kickers can be the difference between best and second best hands. BUT, with all the garbage flops that happen your bad kicker can make an open ended straight along with top pair. So even though I have been out kicked by even one rank many times, I have taken down big pots with having a bad kicker that has made a straight or two pair. How important in "today's" game is the kicker?

[/ QUOTE ]

A slightly more serious response:

Get Pokertracker. Play 100k hands. Look at your win rate with every Ax hand. Graph the results. Does your graph go up/down/straight across? There's your answer.
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:09 AM
winky51 winky51 is offline
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Default Re: Bad kicker...maybe not so bad

that is the best tool you can get to improve your game.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:16 AM
winky51 winky51 is offline
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Default Re: Bad kicker...maybe not so bad

Kicker is very important. Its a 3 out difference.

if you have AK and your opponent has KT and there is a K on the flop he has 3 outs or about a 13% chance to outdraw you. Now reverse the roles. Who is getting the worst of it.

I will take my pair of TTs or AK vs any idiot calling my raise with Ax poop. The man has 3 outs to win with. On the flop he has a 15% chance of hitting his ace and a 1:50 to hit 2 pair to beat me.

Hands like KTo, A9o and below are death hands. I would rather play 98s than KTo. Kickers are very important and the fact that some kicker might make you a long shot straight is not worth it.
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2005, 02:12 PM
lane mcbride lane mcbride is offline
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Default Re: Bad kicker...maybe not so bad

with an ace, I think a kicker is insanely important since a lot of people like to play naked aces. However, I think that with other hands, a kicker is less important (still very important, but less important). if you have 9-4 and you flop top pair with a nine, I think that is MUCH better than having a-4 and flopping top pair (later streets excluded).
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:19 PM
AaronBrown AaronBrown is offline
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Default Re: Bad kicker...maybe not so bad

Aside from the advice you've had already, I would add that the importance of kickers declines for smaller cards. AJo has a 45% edge over ATo (it wins 69% versus 24%) while A3o has only a 6% edge over A2o (it wins 28% versus 22%). The lower the kicker, the less likely it is to figure in the final hand. So once you decide to play A-small for whatever reason, how small is not too important. But the difference between two high cards is often large.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:20 PM
AlanBostick AlanBostick is offline
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Default Re: Bad kicker...maybe not so bad

[ QUOTE ]
that is the best tool you can get to improve your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

... if and only if you play online and therefore have a database of hand histories.
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