First time I thought about laying down Kings preflop

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
No, it can't be QQ. What good player does this near minimum pot odds reraise crap with QQ? Give me a break.


[/ QUOTE ]

These are my thoughts about QQ as well, which leads me to believe that I'm narrowing his hand range down to 2 hands. If you believe this as well (which I can't tell), why wouldn't you fold this?

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm bored tonight and pissed off due to my own mental lapse

[/ QUOTE ]

My own advice is quit chasing the honeybees on the BJ leaderboard. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Slim Pickens]

99 is something like a 61% favorite against a top-35% range. A 61% favorite is good enough for me to take all the way at any stage of the tournament and anyone who suggests otherwise is either a +40% ROI player long-term at that level or they're being an idiot.

If the original raiser is not a super-LAG, no way I'm raising 99, as previously stated.

The other players at the table, in a 33, don't usually know the difference between a 3:1 call and a 1:1 call, so raising the absolute minimum that looks big is plenty to avoid going broke with JJ/AKo against a player behind with KK who (rightly) pushes over your raise.

I only threw 99 out there as an extreme to show that KK holds up against any range of hands I can give to quasi no matter what the read on AAAMAN.

[ QUOTE ]
99 is something like a 61% favorite against a top-35% range. A 61% favorite is good enough for me to take all the way at any stage of the tournament and anyone who suggests otherwise is either a +40% ROI player long-term at that level or they're being an idiot.

If the original raiser is not a super-LAG, no way I'm raising 99, as previously stated.

The other players at the table, in a 33, don't usually know the difference between a 3:1 call and a 1:1 call, so raising the absolute minimum that looks big is plenty to avoid going broke with JJ/AKo against a player behind with KK who (rightly) pushes over your raise.

I only threw 99 out there as an extreme to show that KK holds up against any range of hands I can give to quasi no matter what the read on AAAMAN.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you openraise that range if it was folded to you? Because you're still in EP/MP. Sucky position, a lot can happen behind you (like people going all-in with KK). I think it's better to only isolate LAGs when you're in late position, and then it would have to be a real LAG. Am I wrong here?

[Slim Pickens]

I would not open-raise 99 in level 2 there. In this situation, a player has opened for a typical raise and gotten a smallish reraise from a player we can safely label as "good." Everybody so far seems to want to put the reraiser on a very tight range because of the pot odds he's giving the original raiser and everyone behind him to call. Most of the players at the 33's have little to no understanding of pot odds, and I think a good 33's player knows that and adjusts accordingly. A proper adjustment would be to reraise a range of hands that safely beats the opener's raising range (not saying what that is yet), but not so much as to get stacked by a powerhouse hand.

Of course, this all depends on the read on the open-raiser. If he's raising 35% of the first 15-20 hands, I think it would be correct to reraise whatever range beats the top 35% of hands by a healthy amount. If he's raising 0-5% of the first 15-20 hands, then a reraise would only be appropriate with AA/KK and some percentage of "semi-bluff" AKs, TT-QQ as adanthar said.

Now back to Scuba with KK. Certainly, if he thinks quasi is trying to isolate a LAG with a wider range than would normally be smart against a tighter player, he should play his KK without hesitation. I used 99+ as the very widest range I thought quasi could possibly be playing here in the extreme example that AAAMAN was a super-LAG and quasi was feeling bold. The other extreme is AA/KK/??, and I think the ?? happens enough of the time to still not be able to fold KK here, although it's probably close.

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's better to only isolate LAGs when you're in late position, and then it would have to be a real LAG. Am I wrong here?

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, later position would be better and he would have to be a really fat LAG. I'm not saying I'd make an isolation move this daring, but I'm not #4 on the leaderboard, so shows what I know.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's fine to think this, but it's probably a bad idea to actually fold. It could just as easily be QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm bored tonight and pissed off due to my own mental lapse so I'm gonna flame somebody and it may as well be you (sorry):

No, it can't be QQ. What good player does this near minimum pot odds reraise crap with QQ? Give me a break.

It miiiiight be AK (I've seen it played this way as sort of a semibluff) or little to nothing if he decided he wanted 85 chips. (I'm not saying there's a good chance of that, I'm saying it's theoretically possible.) But it's not QQ unless he misclicked.



[/ QUOTE ]

ok, got you to here...

[ QUOTE ]


I'm probably not folding this, BTW.



[/ QUOTE ]

huh? are you hoping to chop with the other KK?

[Bluff Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's fine to think this, but it's probably a bad idea to actually fold. It could just as easily be QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm bored tonight and pissed off due to my own mental lapse so I'm gonna flame somebody and it may as well be you (sorry):

No, it can't be QQ. What good player does this near minimum pot odds reraise crap with QQ? Give me a break.

It miiiiight be AK (I've seen it played this way as sort of a semibluff) or little to nothing if he decided he wanted 85 chips. (I'm not saying there's a good chance of that, I'm saying it's theoretically possible.) But it's not QQ unless he misclicked.

I'm probably not folding this, BTW.

edit: 99? 99??? Come ON, he's number 4 on the leaderboard and you think he makes an 85 chip bet 200 with 99?

[/ QUOTE ]

hand I Just played w/ quasifiction hes the SB, I guess QQ is in his range

PartyPoker - NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Tournament | Level: 2 - 9 players (Converter: PGC)

Chip Counts:
Button: 665 Chips
SB: 830 Chips
BB: 885 Chips
<font color="red">Hero: 775 Chips</font>
UTG+1: 650 Chips
MP1: 390 Chips
MP2: 1070 Chips
MP3: 1715 Chips
CO: 1020 Chips

Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Blinds are 15/30

PreFlop
<font color="blue">Hero folds</font>, <font color="green">UTG+1 Calls</font>, <font color="red">MP1 RAISES ($60)</font>, <font color="green">MP2 Calls</font>, <font color="blue">MP3 folds</font>, <font color="blue">CO folds</font>, <font color="blue">Button folds</font>
<font color="red">SB RAISES ($135)</font>, <font color="blue">BB folds</font>, <font color="green">UTG+1 Calls</font>, <font color="green">MP1 Calls</font>, <font color="green">MP2 Calls</font>

(4 players) FLOP: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 630 Chips )
<font color="red">SB BETS ($400)</font>, <font color="blue">UTG+1 folds</font>, MP1 is All-In, <font color="red">MP2 RAISES ($800)</font>
SB is All-In

(3 players) TURN: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 2350 Chips )


(3 players) RIVER: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 2350 Chips )


Final Pot:2350 Chips

edthirtynine shows [ 6c, 6s ] a flush, king high.
QuasiFiction shows [ Qd, Qh ] a pair of queens.
diamond522 shows [ Ad, 7s ] a flush, king high.

[adanthar]

lol...see, this is why you should never put '$22' and 'good' in the same sentence. I stand corrected.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
lol...see, this is why you should never put '$22' and 'good' in the same sentence. I stand corrected.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take back what I just said, I misread. This was obviously a terribly played hand.

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
Stupid converter...

#Game No : 3203757646
***** Hand History for Game 3203757646 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:18292789 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Thursday, December 15, 01:55:15 EDT 2005
Table Table 67469 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: AAAMAN1 ( $1035 )
Seat 2: BettaFold110 ( $2005 )
Seat 3: QuasiFiction ( $725 )
Seat 5: Scuba_Chuck ( $800 )
Seat 6: underpar24 ( $865 )
Seat 7: Deevilicious ( $425 )
Seat 8: LuckyAustin4 ( $835 )
Seat 9: CartmansMom ( $385 )
Seat 10: jsa714 ( $925 )
Trny:18292789 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Scuba_Chuck [ Kc Kd ]
AAAMAN1 raises [85].
BettaFold110 folds.
QuasiFiction raises [200].
Scuba_Chuck .....

Just in case any of you don't know, QuasiFiction is #4 on the leaderboard, and he plays the $33s (I'm guessing a ton).

[/ QUOTE ]

Quasi is definitely one of the better players in the 33s. I'd put his range here at AA-mayyyyyybeQQ, sometimes AK, although I'd have to look through my db to see how he's played AK in the past. I'm never folding KK on lvl 2 of an 800 chip game, so I don't think it really matters.