The Anguish of Semi Believers.

[David Sklansky]

First of all there is nothing wrong with mentally assigning a probability that something has already happened. You can technically define what it means to say "I think there is a 97% chance OJ killed Nicole". Or if you want to be less precise, you can say something like "I think there is probably life on other planets." Exactly how these statements should be interpreted is a technical mathematical question. But everybody instinctively knows what I mean.

It is silly to think that the subject of whether there is a God is somehow in a different category. By which I mean that whether they admit it or nor most people are not 100% certain one way or the other. Just like any other question. Almost all people deep down think that God is either highly unlikely, somewhat unlikely, possible but not probable, likely, or highly likely. Many will not mind admitting which camp they are in.

But things change when we are talking about not just the existence of God, but rather the existence of a God who will reward, or even perhaps punish you for eternity, unless you fully believe or at least rate the existence of such a God highly likely.

In the above situation, the people who rate the chances that such a God exists anywhere from somewhat unlikely to somewhat likely, deserve a lot of empathy. Think about their situation. Non believers aren't worried and believers have their ducks in a row. But what about the others? Surely there are many of them, just like as there are many who aren't sure about lots of other issues. But in the other cases there is no torment associated with their uncertainty. Here someone who thinks the punishing God is somewhat likely has to believe he is somewhat likely to go to hell. Imagine being one of them.

Of course many of them, once they believe somewhat, will claim a full belief, Pascal Wager style, that they don't actually have. At the same time though, they fear that God, if there is one, will not be fooled. Pretty tough place to be psychologically. I wonder how many people are in that boat. Including posters on this forum.

On the other hand, semi believers have a liker chance of becoming full believers than atheists do (self evident no?). So, if God is real, and he is vengeful, they can console themselves that their chances of rotting in hell forever are less than an atheists.

Every dark cloud has a silver lining : )

[hurlyburly]

I'll take the fires of Hell rather than supplicate myself to a god that would punish me for not believing in him after giving me the free will to do so.

True atheists are the safest of all, since mentally we are capable if accepting the existence of whoever shows up. It's the semi-faithful who are in big trouble when dad comes home.

[BluffTHIS!]

David you make an excellent point. And even under my more generally lenient view of God's justice and mercy in which sincere non-believers are not necessarily doomed to eternal punishment, these types of people in the middle are in fact the most likely to suffer such a fate if my or similar views are true. This is because whereas an atheist can fall under the sincerely doesn't believe category, those in the middle have some idea that the existence of God and even a certain religion might be true, but then fail to at the very least search for answers so that they can whole-heartedly go one way or the other. These types of people in fact are the ones who are more likely not to embrace religion because of its moral demands, rather because of not buying the tenets of a particular religion. This is particularly true since there are so many religious belief systems among which to choose.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
It is silly to think that the subject of whether there is a God is somehow in a different category. By which I mean that whether they admit it or nor most people are not 100% certain one way or the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am 100% certain. And I know other folks who are also certain. A person knows when they are filled with God's Spirit, as the scripture says happens to those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that God is God.

[ QUOTE ]
but rather the existence of a God who will reward, or even perhaps punish you for eternity,

[/ QUOTE ]

Eternal punishment in hell? This error in Christian doctrine perpetuated by the RCC and accepted by the other sects, is responsible for so many people misunderstanding God.

You die once the natural death that we all know and understand. This is the first death. You may be in hell for a while. And at the end of this age:

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Not eternal. First death. Second death. Our merciful God has no interest in punishing you for eternity. And, a just God also must insist that you not spend eternity with Him if you reject Him for the 20-30-40-60-90 years He gives you breath to breathe.

[mosquito]

Semi-believers also have the option of
not taking the subject very seriously.

Perhaps it just does not matter, or is
not worth the bother to some who say
"maybe".

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
And at the end of this age:

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Not eternal. First death. Second death. Our merciful God has no interest in punishing you for eternity. And, a just God also must insist that you not spend eternity with Him if you reject Him for the 20-30-40-60-90 years He gives you breath to breathe.

[/ QUOTE ]

But by your quotation from Revelation, hell and those in it, are cast into the lake of fire, and no further provision is made for them. So how does this make it not eternal? And it is only your view of what constitutes the actions of a just God that you are stating here, not what they necessarily are. In fact God's justice is more likely to punish eternally, while His mercy is not. And if what you believe is not that God merely anihilates from existence those sent to hell rather than punishing them eternally, but that they are rehabilitated in hell and thus ALL are eventually saved, then you have no true basis in scripture for that view. You then have merely made an idol of your own understanding.

[Cyrus]

You're on hold. Please hold.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
You then have merely made an idol of your own understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

3Cor45:19 And the pot shall call the kettle black.

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ain't it neat how we try to see in others the very things that ensnare us? God's pretty smart. Yup.

[Jordan Olsommer]

I like semi-believing because you have two ways to win: your belief could turn out to be correct after all, or you could just get everybody to leave you alone and take it down without a fight.