Two pair vs PFR

[bozlax]

With AA or AK (especially AK[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) I'm going to fire on this turn 100% of the time after getting capped on the flop. When Hero raises, again, tho, I'm going to slow down, unless I have a set.

This is why I said that Hero should slow down only if 3-bet on the turn.

[bozlax]

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I'd cap the turn if he 3bets...

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Having capped the flop, or not? If I've capped the flop an he's still 3-betting me on the turn, I'm just calling down. It's kind of like dealing with my kids: "I've told you FIVE TIMES that I have better than top pair!" "I DON'T CARE....I HATE YOU!!!!"

[imported_The Vibesman]

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I'd cap the turn if he 3bets...

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Having capped the flop, or not? If I've capped the flop an he's still 3-betting me on the turn, I'm just calling down. It's kind of like dealing with my kids: "I've told you FIVE TIMES that I have better than top pair!" "I DON'T CARE....I HATE YOU!!!!"

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LOL...yes, I meant after just calling the 3bet on the flop, which is what hero did. Totally agree that if we cap and he leads and 3bets the turn we should just call down at that point.

I would have liked a cap on the flop myself, mainly because CO is still in the hand...I mentioned earlier that heads-up I might like a call just to keep him coming at me on the turn. Even then the flop cap might be better - get the money while you can.

[Buckmulligan]

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This is why I said that Hero should slow down only if 3-bet on the turn.

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See, I think that slowing down on the turn to the 3 bet is way too late. By that time, we have most likely pushed out CO and we are almost always beat (anyone advocating a fold here?). I would rather pay 2 bets on the turn and the river for a showdown and keep CO around than pay two on the turn and one on the river when we are beat. Raising the turn may not even win us the most money when we are ahead.

[bozlax]

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This is why I said that Hero should slow down only if 3-bet on the turn.

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See, I think that slowing down on the turn to the 3 bet is way too late. By that time, we have most likely pushed out CO and we are almost always beat (anyone advocating a fold here?). I would rather pay 2 bets on the turn and the river for a showdown and keep CO around than pay two on the turn and one on the river when we are beat. Raising the turn may not even win us the most money when we are ahead.

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Would you slow down with a set of queens, here? The ONLY hands that beat you at this point are a set of kings or queens, and if you were holding a set of queens it's MORE LIKELY that Villan has a set of kings (6 possible hands) than that he has a set of kings or queens, here (2 possible hands).

And, while I like having CO padding the pot, I'd rather take money from the player that's playing back at me than hope that CO keeps calling with his ace-jackoff.

[madscratch]

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This is why I said that Hero should slow down only if 3-bet on the turn.

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See, I think that slowing down on the turn to the 3 bet is way too late. By that time, we have most likely pushed out CO and we are almost always beat (anyone advocating a fold here?). I would rather pay 2 bets on the turn and the river for a showdown and keep CO around than pay two on the turn and one on the river when we are beat. Raising the turn may not even win us the most money when we are ahead.

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But I believe the point is that most often we are not beat. We're losing only to KK or QQ here. I agree with the raise and slowdown only to the 3-bet on the turn. You're right that we lose more money when this happens, but there are only 2 hands out there that beat us.

[numeri]

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I don't know about you, but I count KK and QQ as one way each.

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Just catching up on my post from last night.

I am indeed an idiot. After the flop, villain could have AK 8 ways, (only 2 kings left) AA 6 ways, (all 4 aces are theoretically still out), and KK and QQ each once. (Since we have one of each.) So it's even better - we're only behind 2 hands and ahead of 14.

And here I thought I was giving such a convicing argument. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Buckmulligan]

We are only behind versus QQ and KK, yes, but AK and AA are the only hands that we are ahead against as well.

[numeri]

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We are only behind versus QQ and KK, yes, but AK and AA are the only hands that we are ahead against as well.

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Right, but what I meant was that there are only two total ways to have KK/QQ, while there are 14 remaining ways to have AK/AA.

[johnc]

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Cap flop, raise turn.

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